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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Re wanting to buy my daughter a rum & raisin ice cream

142 replies

DoughDoe · 11/06/2015 23:32

So we went out today to buy ice cream from Thorntons. DD, who is 7, said she wanted rum & raisin ice cream.

Woman (Muslim though I'm not sure if that was a factor in her thinking) behind the till said 'I can't serve her that'.

Bought one ice cream (there were three of us) handed it to DH and told DD & DH to go away so I could buy DD's ice cream without having the woman tell us she couldn't give it to her. DD got upset and refused, because she didn't know what was going on and thought she wasn't going to get any ice cream. So gave up trying to buy more ice creams, and just walked off, and we ended up with just one ice cream between the three of us.

Won't be going back there, either, if this woman is serving.

AIBU to think I should be able to buy my child an ice cream?

OP posts:
Perfectlypurple · 12/06/2015 00:18

You do realise that the wearing of head scarves and other coverings is cultural rather than religious and it is not just Muslims that wear these types of coverings.

www.judaism-islam.com/quiz-can-you-tell-her-religion-from-her-head-covering/

Aermingers · 12/06/2015 00:24

I disagree Worra. A customer shouldn't be forced to ask for an explanation, and also shouldn't be made to feel embarrassed by the situation. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the OPs view on religion it was poor customer service. And we don't know for certain that the assistant was correct anyway.

msgrinch · 12/06/2015 00:25

No dear, you made a thread about it, especially as you hadn't even checked for the company policy before posting. You bought the woman's religion/cultural dress in as as factor when actually she was following her employers rules. A simple Google would have told you that.

Original poster
DoughDoe · 12/06/2015 00:26

"You failed to ask a simple, basic question like "Oh, can you tell me why you can't serve her please?""

I had no interest in having any kind of discussion with this woman. It's not a complicated transaction really is it, sunny day, buy ice cream, enjoy.

I made the appraisal that you are not going to win a 'computer says no'-style argument over licensing laws, because people tend to be quite strict over them. It's not like arguing with a car salesman to get £50 off the price of the car, in the eyes of the person there it's just 'sorry it's illegal'. What is there to discuss???

And I further decided to avoid this by just buying the ice creams myself, but when that didn't go to plan, I'm hardly going to start an argument am I?

"If I were you, I would ask for this thread to be deleted because I'd be too embarrassed to let it remain on a public forum, even though you are actually anonymous.
"

Thanks for the advice but I think it's actually a good idea that it stays here, as it's now top of Google if this happens to someone in the future.

I will update it with Thorntons response if and when I get one.

OP posts:
Minifingers9 · 12/06/2015 06:11

What's racist about speculating that someone who is a believer in a religion which rigidly forbids the consumption of any alcohol by its followers might be affected by those beliefs when it comes to serving food containing alcohol to the public?

My best friend at college was Muslim. She and her sister used to have conversations where they'd laugh about their cousins and aunts scouring the ingredients lists of packaged foods looking for tiny amounts of alcohol - all trying to outdo each other in who was the best Muslim - while at the same time driving a coach and horses through other important tenets of Islamic belief like generosity and tolerance.

mrstweefromtweesville · 12/06/2015 06:16

Stick to lemonade lollies. DD had my r+r ice cream off me when she was a year old, wasn't happy with her simple lolly. After that, we both had lemonade lollies. For years.

TheFairyCaravan · 12/06/2015 06:25

I completely agree with everything Worra has said throughout this thread.

The OP should be ashamed of herself. I very much doubt there would have been a thread if the shop assistant hadn't have been Muslim.

cigarsofthepharaoh · 12/06/2015 06:29

Why wouldn't there have been a thread? The op would still have been denied her rum and raisin, the woman's headscarf/religion is merely a sidenote, not a focal point.

People need to stop overreacting the moment religion is mentioned. It doesn't always equal xenophobia, so calm down.

Idefix · 12/06/2015 06:30

Wow op I hope you have enough plasters to cover the scratches. I totally get how annoying this would be. Fwiw my dd would have been very cross/upset, understandably after expectations of eating favourite icecream had been dashed.
Agree with pp who said that it was poor customer service that the server did not explain the rationale for the refusal to serve.

CamelHump · 12/06/2015 06:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Waltonswatcher · 12/06/2015 06:37

Op actually I admire your guts for coming back to answer .
Nothing you said was racist . It was an ill thought out post in today's climate though and has easily wound people up .
Why are people so bloody quick to point the racist finger and keep in jabbing when the stench of racism has left the room?
Your biggest error though was shopping in Thorntons - cheap crap chocolate and I bet the icecreams grim !

VivaLeBeaver · 12/06/2015 06:38

I think people are been horrible here as well.

I'm sorry but I can see why the OP thought it might be a factor. There's a small co-op near here and one of the staff is Muslim. He won't serve alcohol to people (hes over 18) and if you want to buy alcohol he buzzes for another member of staff to come and serve you.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 12/06/2015 06:49

Even if so...why start a thread about it?

Unless you want to come across like some Britain First meme about "this is a Christian country. When in Rome do as the Romans do" etc

Minifingers9 · 12/06/2015 06:55

Muslims are just like any other religious people - some of them are unpleasantly judgey and petty and need to unclench.

Islamophobia exists - in spades - in the UK, but not every reference to Islam which is less than entirely positive is an expression of it.

PopTarts · 12/06/2015 08:00

It seriously sounds like the op herself is 'unpleasantly judgey' and 'needs to unclench'. Especially the bit about 'well if people want to announce their religion with their clothing they should expect shit loads of prejudice' remark. Thinly veiled, op, thinly veiled.

And that example about your 7 year old daughter buying a 'tittilating novel'. I would hope that anyone sane person would refuse that one.
Or would that also be a problem for you and would you huff off and start a thread about it?

'Muslim woman (wearing a jilbab)at whsmith refused to sell my dd (7) fifty shades of shite, bloody annoyed

merrymouse · 12/06/2015 08:08

If my daughter had wanted to buy a titilating novel and the woman refusing had had big cross around her neck , then I would have mentioned that to, no it's not necessarily the reason, but it's a bit daft to ignore it.

Again, your best bet would be to discuss the matter with the shop assistant.

Altinkum · 12/06/2015 08:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SaucyJack · 12/06/2015 08:11

I'd be quite pleased if a shop assistant refused to sell one of my primary-aged DCs a literotica novel- whether she was wearing a cross or not.

VenomousVorpent · 12/06/2015 08:17

I am quite impressed that the rum and raisin ice cream actually had real rum in it eight years ago!

I hate headscarves, they make me think misogyny. Crosses are weird too - method of torture and execution worn as decoration? Odd. All religions are peculiar.

merrymouse · 12/06/2015 08:25

What's racist about speculating that someone who is a believer in a religion which rigidly forbids the consumption of any alcohol by its followers might be affected by those beliefs when it comes to serving food containing alcohol to the public?

presumably if she was unable to sell rum and raisin ice cream for religious reasons she would have refused to sell the ice cream to anyone - adult or child.

I have no idea whether the op is racist, but she does seem to make life complicated for herself.

In the first instance just ask why something can't be sold. If that is too difficult and you are upset, contact thornton's customer services.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 12/06/2015 08:27

Given that Muslim Shop Assistants have refused to sell people alcohol in the past, it's not unreasonable of the OP to wonder if that was a factor.

Excample 1

Example 2

"Consuming alcohol is forbidden in Islam, and some Muslims refuse to handle it at all."

TBH that seems a more likely reason than the alcohol content of the ice cream, so not a totally unreasonable train of thought...

Andrewofgg · 12/06/2015 08:32

Next time just buy the rum and raisin "for yourself" and whatever you like "for her" and swap and sod Thorntons and their silly interfering rules.

ChickenLaVidaLoca · 12/06/2015 08:36

It's pretty funny that people are jumping down OPs throat for making assumptions, whilst also themselves making the assumption that OP assumed the woman's religion was a factor. Despite the fact that her OP explicitly states she didn't know if it was or not! There seem to be a lot of assumptions being made here by a lot of different people.

And yeah, it's not exactly news that some Muslim shop assistants have refused to handle alcohol in the past. It's a thing. I have no issue with this btw, it's a matter between employer and employee. The perfectly legal contractual terms between two parties are no business of anyone else's. It's a free country, and equally anyone who objects to a Muslim staff member being able to refuse to serve them alcohol is free to take their custom elsewhere. If that's the point OP was making, just go somewhere else.

merrymouse · 12/06/2015 08:40

Given that Muslim Shop Assistants have refused to sell people alcohol in the past, it's not unreasonable of the OP to wonder if that was a factor.

But it's a bit silly not to just ask.

"I can't serve her that"

"Oh whys that?"

Presumably the shop assistant can then explain that this is a general policy or get somebody else to serve.

Andrewofgg · 12/06/2015 08:42

I have every issue with being held up while someone else is found to sell alcohol. Retail staff should sign a contract saying that I will sell anything you sell now, and if you start selling something I don't like I will either sell it or quit the job and if they don't sign they should not get the job.

Alcohol, meat, kosher meat, halal meat, meat that is neither, the Daily Mail, the Guardian, the Satanic Verses, lottery tickets - if you work in retail it's not your job to make it difficult for the customer to buy them, it is your job to sell them if the customer wants them.