To think that self esteem is something of a myth?

[User543212345]

I'm currently in therapy for a number of issues but the one thing my therapist keeps coming back to is self esteem/self compassion and liking oneself. It really doesn't make sense to me and seems a bit self indulgent to think "well aren't I rather good and worthwhile" and I just can't fathom anyone in the real world doing that. Surely it's a bit smug and boastful?

AIBU to think that it's all a bit made up and most people feel a bit "meh" about themselves?

I like what Penfolds said on page 1 - that undervaluing and overvaluing oneself are two sides of the same coin.
I think I have reasonably good self-esteem but that's from a starting position of hoping to respect everyone. I think life is more about experience than achievement. I try not to judge either myself or others too harshly.

Have only read about half the thread.

Yes, I agree with Penfolds5 and also this bit by DodosNest: "To me, self esteem isn't thinking "I am better than everyone else" it is thinking "I am a person, just like everyone else and I deserve to be treated well, just like everyone else"It's the lack of an inferiority complex rather than a superiority complex."

Especially when younger, I was very egotistical about certain things whilst also disliking other aspects of myself, so got a taste of the pitfalls of both sides.

Also, would it help to use a different term?
"Self-esteem" can have a 'special snowflake' association. What about "self-respect" instead?
And think about how you'd want someone else you really like to be treated in a given situation.

Have you done any meditation OP? It can be a useful supplement to therapy, Especially the Metta Bhavana for this issue. and classes are often cheap in cities.

Juggling, ego and self-esteem are two different things. Not really two sides of the same coin. More like, two different coins, one is a huge chocolate coin that can melt. and the other is a smaller coin that isn't effected by heat/cold/usage.

Fair enough if you don't like the coin analogy Tommy - it wasn't mine anyway
But I didn't use the words you just have and neither did the original poster

If you have a spare huge choc coin I'll have one to go with this brew

Self esteem is never ever talking to yourself in a way you wouldn't to somebody you love or respect.

If I mess up I say to myself "ok you messed up, how are you going to fix it?" I don't say "you are a crap person, you always mess everything up, you don't deserve xyz.

Ego on the other hand woukd be saying "it couldn't have been me, I don't mess up, it was somebody else's fault"

OP, I read your second post about it not being your place to impact other people, and I thought that it sounded like you feel you don't deserve a place in the world. Then I read another of your posts and you actually said you don't feel you should take up any space.
That is really sad, and someone has really done a number on you. Because the absolute, most basic definition of self esteem is knowing that you deserve to exist, take up some room in the world, that you matter.

Having good self-esteem doesn't mean feeling you are always right. It means admitting your mistakes, apologising where appropriate and then moving on whilst incorporating the lessons you've learned...just like you allow your positive experiences to change and shape you in your future.

I'm reminded of someone telling me the difference between etiquette and good manners. Good manners is about making other people feel comfortable and valued, while etiquette is about making yourself feel "better" at the expense of those who don't know the rules. Self-esteem is about feeling comfortable and valued as a person without taking anything from anyone else. Smugness/arrogance is about bolstering your own sense of self-worth by making other people feel smaller.

Yes, we have the right to make a mistake.

OP, order a copy of Anne Dickson's "a woman in your own right". I'm sure there are lots of books about self-esteem but I found this very well written and easy to understand, and not at all patronising.

As well as explaining the difference between ego and self-esteem, which is very helpful, the author lists 11 basic rights.

The rights are:
I have the right to state my own needs and set my own priorities as a person independent of any roles that I may assume in my life
I have the right to be treated with respect as an intelligent capable and equal human being
I have the right to express my feelings
I have the right to express my opinions and values
I have the right to say "yes" or "no" for myself
I have the right to make mistakes
I have the right to change my mind
I have the right to say I don't understand
I have the right to have the right to ask for what I want
I have the right to decline responsibility for other people's problems
I have the right to deal with others without being dependent on them for approval

The book is about assertiveness but the way we deal with things, ie, Passive - giving up rights, Aggressive - forcing other to give up their rights, Indirect - manipulating others to get what one wants or Assertive - Ensuring that one's rights are respected as well as respecting the rights of others, it's all really well written and really well explained.

Treat yourself to a copy! you definitely deserve it! Best tenner I've ever spent.

I just want to thank everyone for replying. My self esteem is on the floor at the moment. I struggle understanding what it actually is. But the thought provoking comments on here have helped

I don't believe self esteem is a myth. I have no idea where mine comes from... my childhood wasn't great, but throughout it all I have always only ever wanted to be me. I like me.

I have a SIL who suggested that, with work, I could be just like her . She was nonplussed when I said that I was happy as I was.

Loving yourself isn't arrogance, it is self acceptance. I'm always looking to self improve... to be kinder, more accepting of others, to give my time and skills without resentment. But I like the raw product that is me... and I enjoy building upon that.

I have friends who probably have a more desirable (by society) raw product, who have admitted to being envious of others who appear to have more. I find that a little sad.

I don't think it's particularly liking yourself - more not disliking yourself. So you don't self criticize and berate yourself.

So then you are just a person like everyone else, with good points and bad. And you can get on with life without constantly comparing or considering what everyone else thinks/might think of you.

Lots of food for thought here, thank you all for taking the time to explain this to me. I am at the beginning of my therapy journey, so I suppose it's going to take time for these concepts to sink in, even as abstracts. Onwards and ever upwards though. I'm working on removing negative external influences in my life who reinforce my inner critic - it shocking how many "friends" I have made who I allow to treat me like utter shit, and I think that being around unkind people is a barrier to being kind to myself.

I've ordered the Anne Dickson book and will work through that when it arrives.

I think a lot of self esteem comes from surrounding yourself by good people

I was going to say that for me it was been contact with and having the chance to observe consistently kind and positive people that provided a new template. My family were loving but not always good at making us feel accepted for example too much sibling unpleasantness was tolerated imo.

Being with people who were not critical of me was a revelation.

I grew up thinking I was just a waste of space. I didn't know how to make friends, didn't understand my peers and generally thought if even my own mother doesn't like me I must be pretty unlikeable.
For me self esteem is the realisation that actually I'm ok. Not perfect but a nice person. I have friends now and understand that even the most outwardly confident person has shaky moments. I read lots about CBT and retraining how you think about things. I wrote a list of the good things about me, even tiny things and a list of the bad things. Seeing in writing that the good list was much longer really helped me. Telling DC over and over that they are unique beings and have the potential to be amazing has helped me apply this to myself too. It's a mind set, if you don't feel positive about yourself how can you be positive about anything else.

This thread has made think: DH has very low self esteem I believe. But he hides it through complete big headed ness which sometimes spills
Into arrogance.
As a result he doesn't get much praise and when he does do some thing badly people tend to really hammer home how bad it was because he doesn't appear to realise, even arguing with them that it was fine.
Like a Lot of people with low self esteem he finds it impossible to accept constructive criticism.

I wonder if he would respond to being treated more the way my self esteem grows- praise and being told how brilliant he is. He never gets this because people automatically want to take him down a peg or two. Anyone else experienced this?