To think that self esteem is something of a myth?

[User543212345]

I'm currently in therapy for a number of issues but the one thing my therapist keeps coming back to is self esteem/self compassion and liking oneself. It really doesn't make sense to me and seems a bit self indulgent to think "well aren't I rather good and worthwhile" and I just can't fathom anyone in the real world doing that. Surely it's a bit smug and boastful?

AIBU to think that it's all a bit made up and most people feel a bit "meh" about themselves?

Sweary - If you can get it as an abstract, then think how it applies to other people. Think kindly towards them and accord them that innate value they have.
Then perhaps you can imagine being on the outside, thinking the same way about yourself - that is with compassion.

I believe (and have experienced) that it is possible to change your thinking with long practice - but it's not the work of a day.

Surely we shouldn't impact on others? I mean, who am I to make any impact/have any effect on someone else's life? It's not my place, surely?

We should avoid negative impact, but positive impact is... positive. A former colleague contacted me recently, to say thanks for the training I'd given while he was here, because it helped him get his new job. (Which, ironically, I would never have gone for, because I would have said I don't have enough knowledge, which probably says something about my own self-esteem...)

That's quite a different sort of impact than of he'd left thinking, "she never helped when I asked, she gave us loads of work without discussion, then shouted when we didn't finish quickly..." We all have some sort of impact on people, unless we are total hermits, and it can be a very good thing.

Self-esteem is s tricky thing, though. There are technical, procedural things I'm really good at, but if I get feedback about things like how I relate to others, how others see me, the things they associate with me - it's not usually my technical abilities, but how I stand up and speak when I think things aren't right and push to get improvements made. My initial reaction to this sort of feedback is usually, oh, you're just saying that, you're just being nice, you're going to ask me to do something. It's hard to accept it when part of you doesn't believe it, even if rationally, you know they've got a point, and they're not after anything.

I don't totally know what the answer is. But I do know that having a positive impact on others is a good thing - but it's also good to do things for yourself. Feedback from others is nice, but your self esteem shouldn't rely on it, and nor should your sense of self-worth be based solely on doing things for others, which I think women can be prone to. Sometimes, you need to do things for yourself just because you want to and you enjoy it.

Haven't read the whole thread, but yabu.

To me, self-esteem is about resilience and valuing yourself (therefore acknowledging that you deserve to be valued by others).

It is very cultural to believe that self-worth is unseemly and equates to bragging. It's such a shame that we are giving that message to our kids.

As far as other's criticism shaking my core belief about myself, self-esteem (hard won) has allowed me to differentiate between when they may have a point and when it is their own "stuff". This doesn't change my fundamental feelings of self worth because I have resilience.

I am disabled and DH asked me if I was ever bullied in school because of it.

I said, "No". But then I thought about it and, yes actually people did occasionally make nasty remarks to me. I think the mental process was somewhere along the lies of

Bully: Tink, you walk really funny, you weirdo.
Me: (In my head). Well maybe I do but I'm still a cool person who everybody likes, whereas you are a sad cruel fucker who will never get anywhere.

If anything I am probably guilty of thinking I am brighter, funnier, better looking than I really am. But none of those factors should affect how you value about yourself as a person.

I do feel that my opinion isn't worthwhile (years of being told it's wrong) and that I'm not worth the same as everyone else, trying to make myself smaller and take up less space and not get in anyone's way. It's truly shitty but I really don't get that it can be any other way.

I was like that teens and 20s.

I moved away from my family - a major source of criticism. Away form an area - so away from school bullies and people who saw me that way. Though I have had to learn coping techniques to deal with them better subsequently.

Got a good education something that I had been told in past wouldn't be possible for me - fulfilled more and more of my goals and with that as I've gone on through life my self esteem has risen as has my resilience.

I've seen it with friends who left abusive partners - they slowly rebuild their self worth. In one case I didn't see her for 18 months and the change was remarkable - this bubbly self confident happiness radiating woman - I hadn't know her before it was breath-taking change.

I haven't had counselling but that voice in my head finding fault with me is less and less prevalent with time as some work at ignoring/changing it.

I think you are wise to think about such things OP, as it can be used as a lazy catch-all when of course some problems simply do make you miserable as a result of dealing with them at the time. If there is a real issue with self esteem causing limits in real life, then yes, tackle that. There are also many reasons why women stay with abusive men other than low self esteem.

Its also possible to have too much regard for yourself. I have for instance a male friend who is, to be critical, unemployed by choice, short, and living in a grotty flat in a rough area. Yet he believes that nearly all women are desperate to date him and probably marry him. I found CBT more helpful than counselling because it encourages you to think about others and the effect you have on them too, and how you come across to others.

I wasn't trying to imply low self esteem is reason women stay in abusive relationships I'm sure there are many reasons.

More saying that abusive relationships do corrode self esteem over time and I've seen such people after leaving such relationship and dealing with fall out who display really low esteem and self worth after a period of time have rebuilt themselves and their self esteem.

For your whole self to be reliant on being externally validated means you become very fragile.

If you have people on your life ranging from having their own problems to being downright abusive, that then means you have no protection from seeing yourself the way they see you (or want you to see yourself). It only works if you are surrounded by totally balanced and kind people.

And taking it to its extreme... What happens to that person in a situation of persecution, war or intolerance? Is that person only as good/ valuable as other people think they are?

How does that work if you're black in Texas in the 1920s? Or Jewish in Poland in the 1940s? Or a woman pre-vote and considered a possession for most of history? Pr disabled in oh today's society?

Great post miscellaneous.

I have my good points and I am realistic about my flaws. I know I am not perfect but then there is no such thing as a perfect person. We are all flawed in some way or another.

I accept myself for who I am. Yes, I've made mistakes in the past but that has made me the person that I am today. I know I'm ok at doing somethings. I can't say I excel at anything in particular. There are lots of things I'm not very good at at all. But none of that matters. I am no better and no worse and deserve nothing more or less than other people. I am me and as worthy as anyone else. I deserve to be treated as I treat others.

I need to respect and like myself or why should anybody else? I refuse to be treated badly. If anyone thinks negatively about me, I can self appraise and see that occasionally they may have a point, otherwise it is their issue.

I don't go round bragging. I don't need to. I am confident enough of my own self worth, that I don't need to go round broadcasting it. I mix and get on well with, people from all walks of life. Everybody is equal in my eyes, no matter what their background and class are. I expect to be viewed the same way. Otherwise it is their issue

Please continue with the counselling op, however hard it is. You are worth just as much as every other poster on here. Honestly. You are flawed but so is everyone of us. Value yourself.

Thanks Cedric was worried I'd be hung as I referenced the nazis which is a Very Bad Thing on the Internet and immediately invalidates your argument :)

I'm finding this thread useful as it helps externalise my bad self esteem as I need to change it and the terrible way I think about myself all the time. I would talk to my worst enemy the way I do to myself in my head...

Surely we shouldn't impact on others? I mean, who am I to make any impact/have any effect on someone else's life? It's not my place, surely?

I used to feel exactly like this due to much training by my mum. But when you think about it it makes no sense. You do have an impact on people, you can't avoid it, and lots of people have an impact on you. It can't be avoided, and there are people in your life who actively want to be impacted by you. Leave aside family for now, say e.g. you're taking a class. Even if you sit up the back and don't contribute, you're having an impact on the other students, changing the class dynamic, and the teacher, who's probably wracking her brains trying to get you to join in . Also in that situation someone is paying the teacher to educate you and that means she wants you to be able to participate and get something out of it. Your position in the class exists, it is a thing, you can choose to try and reduce your impact but your absence, as well as your presence, is a thing, and the class only exists because of the people in it, and you are one of them. Does that make any sense?

The other way to do it is to look at the people around you and think, if they had to put others first and restrict what they say and who they impact in the way that you do, would that be fair to them? Because what's fair for other people is fair for you too (and further, most people are usually acting to further their own interests so it's completely fair for you to devote most of your time and energy to doing the same). That bit in bold right, that's basically my definition of self esteem.

Think about how highly you regard some people. What effort you may go to for them, just because they are them. And now think of yourself. You are the only person who has to live with yourself for, let's say, another 60 odd years. All these other people you hold in high regard will come and go. So, to get through life you have to have high regard for yourself and treat yourself how you would treat others. YABU.

Some excellent points on this thread - really like Misc post.
I know a number of people who rely totally on others to validate them and their lives are just filled with DRAMA .
She said, did, looked at me funny, didnt do ... constant need for others to tell them they are OK.
They react personally to everything .
The problem is those around you don't know that you have this need for constant praise/validation so they are either baffled by the behaviour or annoyed by it.
I worked with someone like this - she was exhausting in her need for others to validate everything she did, the main issue was her low sense of self < who she was> as well as low self esteem.

I'm finding this thread useful as it helps externalise my bad self esteem as I need to change it and the terrible way I think about myself all the time. I would talk to my worst enemy the way I do to myself in my head...

Sorry. Posted too soon.

I really hope the above is true for a lot of the people who are struggling on this thread.

I also think people often hear the negative and gloss over the positives they hear. Concentrate on the positive things you hear. This is what people with high esteem do.

I did a course recently and as an "icebreaker" - eeek hate that ! we had to get to know each other and then tell the group about the other person.
Guess what I learnt ?
Yes- others see me as attractive, well groomed, interesting ,kind and a successful person .
All the things we see in others but not ourselves.
Im my own worse critic - trying to break that habit ,I think it was instilled in me by very critical, disapproving parents.
I rarely see them anymore, they just have this need to knock me down

It certainly does but what Im talking about here is very extreme Ego
To this day my achievements are never referenced at all.
They simply find something ,particularly my weight or appearance to mock.
There is always an air of distinct disapproval - always.

I think if you have loving supportive parents then targets are not going to cause such extreme issues.

That's very sad namechange. I hope that one you've realised this is wrong, you can now value yourself as you so rightfully deserve to.

Self esteem is about maturity IMO. Children slink back and look for approval. Adults step forward and sort things out. I have two young souls relying on me. I have to be the one who steps forward because they deserve that.

Thanks for this thread. SE is something I have never had and my mother in particular actively works against any chance of it. I'm a mother now and can see looking back that the lack of SE has caused me to make some terrible choices and to not take up some good opportunities. It's such a restricted and vulnerable way of living.
I don't want this for my DC so I am very careful to praise and reassure in order to boost their resilience and confidence. I would love for them to be optimists about their life and choices and have that carefree have-a-try outlook that some of my colleagues have. Would like to work on my own SE next and this thread is helpful.

One of the problems with having appalling SE is of course that it is the norm for you- often reinforced by others behaviours towards you. So you can be unaware that you even have a SE problem until things get really unbearable as a result of your poor SE behaviours or you have some kind of epiphany about it (like by seeing another person with good SE make decisions, or wanting better for your child) and you finally realise what an constant drag on you it is and that actually SE doesn't have to be a part of you. But it's hard to shift it.

What other people reflect back to you about yourself is probably not always a great measure of who you are (whatever your state of SE) and I think people with low SE should be quite careful about taking it on board. As PP have said others have their own agendas and issues and anyway how you behave as a result of poor SE need not reflect 'the real' you- while of course you need to be careful not to let your poor SE choices hurt others. I have certainly been guilty of that in the past.

Anyway this thread is a helpful reminder that change is possible.

Yes, I wonder the same. How do you know how to feel if you've never felt it? The way my counsellor describes it is that you need to love your inner child like a mother would, but then my issues began in very early childhood (before I was born even) so I came out unloved and it continued from there. I wonder what it will be like to have 'normal' self esteem. I was shopping recently and suddenly realised I wasn't trying to hide from everyone around me and it felt very free. I think that's what it must be like; feeling free from the shackles of feeling negative about yourself. My esteem has grown, because I am less afraid of the world and myself.

Thanks grapejuice actually I realised this many years ago thank god and made some serious changes and got counselling at the time.
I was just making the point that being critical of yourself is often a default setting but it can be changed
Am very happy and although the process was painful - Im OK !