To think that self esteem is something of a myth?

[User543212345]

I'm currently in therapy for a number of issues but the one thing my therapist keeps coming back to is self esteem/self compassion and liking oneself. It really doesn't make sense to me and seems a bit self indulgent to think "well aren't I rather good and worthwhile" and I just can't fathom anyone in the real world doing that. Surely it's a bit smug and boastful?

AIBU to think that it's all a bit made up and most people feel a bit "meh" about themselves?

self compassion and liking oneself

That's idea we are own worst critics - we say things - nasty put down things to ourselves and barrate ourselves for stuff that if others did what we had we wouldn't think say or feel towards them.

I do it - I'm hard on myself if I say the wrong things or don't talk enough - a lot of it's internalised criticisms I heard when younger.

You know what as I've gotten older I realised many people feel uncomfortable in societal setting - we all say wrong things. I've met people who been extremely nasty in social settings - it wasn't me setting them off as much as they being bitchy prior to meeting me and will be after. The voice in my head finding fault isn't one I need to listen to - and I can silence by think differently about situations and not dwelling on all my faults.

I don't think you are right OP. There is such a thing as self-esteem - I have it. I think I am valuable and I treat myself properly. I don't do martyrdom or attention-seeking because I don't need to - I think I'm good enough without creating dramas around myself.

I'm actually quite shy - so the two things can co-exist.

I suspect it has a lot to do with being whole-heartedly accepted and valued by someone as a child.

I think posting in AIBU for an issue that is affecting you when you are currently in therapy might not be the best plan, particularly if you have low self esteem, this really would be better in the MH board.

I used to have terrible self esteem, thought I was worth absolutely nothing, would come to nothing, was utterly pointless, this had a very negative effect on my family and oh.

After years and years of therapy I no longer think of myself in those terms at all and would consider it very damaging, you don't need to think you are the second coming, but you do need to accept that you have a right to be here, I think I have a worth to the world, everyone does, but you can be in a place where this is very hard to see.

I think that self esteem is about being able to think "ok, I might not be the best person in the world at X/Y/Z, but I have done my best/worked hard/ made the best of this, and I am happy with what I have done". I don't think that is smug or arrogant.

I have good SE - to me it's not about thinking you are the dogs nolloxs but liking yourself enough to embrace your flaws challenge and change your faults, forgive yourself and do a big two fingered wave to people who try and quash your self worth

My DS has low (catastrophically low) self esteem despite being a socially confident child and I discussed this with his psychologist as it confused me. I don't think self esteem is about congratulating yourself for being marvelous. My understanding is that self esteem is the gap between who/where you are and who/where you think you should be. If there is a big gap them you have low self esteem and will consider yourself to be useless.

DS's problem is that he perceives that where he should be is where the best person that he can see is eg if he's in a rugby training session he compares himself not just to the best boys in the team but the coach - who is a professional rugby player. If asked about it he will on the surface accept that it not reasonable for any 9 year old to reach that standard but he doesn't actually feel that - he feels that he is never quite good enough at anything because he is fundamentally flawed in some way.

Those who are reporting good self esteem - how do you reconcile when people are unkind/point out character flaws in you? Doesn't it shake your core belief in your self?

People being unkind doesn't shake any core beliefs in myself. Thats just people being unkind - it happens and sometimes it might hurt my feeling but thats just life.

People pointing out my character flaws might also hurt my feelings (I mean who really wants to hear it!) but it doesn't my core belief in myself because I don't believe that I'm a god-like being with no flaws!

I don't think I'm perfect and I still try hard to behave well and do the best that I can in many ways - be more patient, more tidy etc but I understand who I am and on the whole I'm either content with that or I'm trying to improve it to a level I'm happy with.

I suspect the Dalai Llama has very healthy self esteem without managing to be arrogant or selfish.

In my experience people with self esteem issues are often very egotistical - far more so than people with a healthy amount of self esteem. They will very often reference everything back to themselves... what other people are thinking of them as they walk down the street etc

It wouldn't occur to me to think that a stranger was walking down the street thinking about me - "Oh look isn't that lady fat/scruffy etc" but my Mum and my DS so think that others are often thinking about them and judging them - its become a bit of a standing joke at home as I always say "you know what that woman is really thinking... I wonder what I should have for lunch"

I always say that I have much more self-respect than I have self-esteem.

I am full of contradictions. I often think I am a really good person, nice to know and have a lot of good qualities, but then I have a gremlin on my shoulder that says: 'Haha you fool! your father didn't love you, your best friend just dumped you and people leave you. It's because you are unloveable' Me and my gremlin battle often :)

I have always had self-respect though, well since my late 20s. Even when I feel shitty about myself I know I deserve to be treated with kindness and respect and I am quick to distance myself from people who don't treat me well. I am not really sure how someone with dodgy self-esteem can have great self-respect, but somehow I manage it.

I have self acceptance. I accept I am flawed and sometimes even like my flaws because they are me. I wouldn't say my self-esteem is great though.

See? I am odd.

My mum always said that the people who go around talking about how wonderful they are all the time are the people who probably have the lowest self-esteem. I am not talking about anyone here but we have all met people who are constantly going on about how great they are etc (like a man who goes on about his huge penis probably has a micro one). People with healthy self-esteem are just getting on with it.

well aren't I rather good and worthwhile

I am. I'm excellent at my job, a loving partner and a loyal friend.

Knowing that gets me up in the morning. Its not smug and boastful - it is what I need to keep going when things get me down.

Those who are reporting good self esteem - how do you reconcile when people are unkind/point out character flaws in you? Doesn't it shake your core belief in your self?

Something else my mum taught me.

When people point out your faults or are mean to you it says much more about them than it does you.

I recently had a fall out with my friend and she said something pretty mean to me. This is where my gremlin comes out. My gremlin tries to tell me it is because I am unloveable.. cause, daddy issues. But I tell myself that what she said about me was down to her insecurities and doesn't say anything about who I am as a person. She viewed me in a way that just isn't true, because she has low self-esteem in that area.

My dad shook my self believe in myself because he doesn't love me. But other people can't do that to me anymore, even if it is something I have to fight against. It doesn't come natural to me but fuck if I am going to ever let anyone make me feel shitty about myself long term. My dad did it to me and I have the scars, but he isn't taking away any more of my self-esteem now I am an adult. But it is a daily battle, but I mostly win.

Those who are reporting good self esteem - how do you reconcile when people are unkind/point out character flaws in you? Doesn't it shake your core belief in your self?

When I was a teenager and in my early 20s unkindness from others really did shake my core belief in myself. I was bullied a bit at school and it really affected my sense of myself as someone who was attractive or worth being friends with. Being loved by my husband who I met at the age of 17 (although we didn't get married for 10 years) really helped as he has very good self esteem and that kind of rubbed off. Having children and feeling that I was doing a good job of being a parent also helped and at the age of 40 I'd say that I have pretty good self esteem and find my teenage self unrecognisable to myself as I am now. I don't know how old you are OP, but if you were bullied or treated unkindly when young, it can take time and positive experiences to build up self esteem.

In my experience people with self esteem issues are often very egotistical - far more so than people with a healthy amount of self esteem. They will very often reference everything back to themselves...

Absolutely, you see it on here all the time: "this women looked at me funny, she obviously hates me and thinks she's above me, how dare she be so horrible" or "all of my friends are terrible, they don't make me feel valued enough, they don't like me really, they use me". It's the lack of self esteem that makes them think not only do they feel bad about themselves, but everyone else feels bad about them, and they assume everyone is thinking about them. Low self-esteem breeds self absorption and narcissism.

Of course overly high self esteem can do exactly the same thing in a different direction. But good healthy self esteem allows you to not make everything about you. You don't assume someones funny look is directed at you because you don't think there is any reason it would be. You assume your friends think you're ok too because they like you, and why wouldn't they? Healthy self esteems frees one from self absorption, its like a quick: hey I'm fine, not too bad, lets move on....

I was sceptical too OP.

I found the writing of Martin Seligman on self esteem very useful. His book The Optimistic Child discusses the self esteem movement but a quick google brings up commentary.

As an anecdote I have a sibling who seems to revel in (slyly) criticising me, I honestly believe it's their problem but it does make me feel awkward in that moment and sad. But I don't accept their judgement iyswim. We just have different ideas on life and I'm the more accomodating. (See how I did that!)

Looking back I think I developed really healthy self esteem because I didn't experience much negativity/criticism in my formative years.

My patents adored me and perhaps more importantly accepted me flaws and all.

I also had a nan who I sober hours with and made me feel truly special and valuable.

I didn't really come across any personal unkindness until I got to university.

I believe self esteem has nothing at all to do with what qualities we think we have, or lack. It's not about how clever, or beautiful, or talented, or 'valuable' we think we are.

It's about the treatment we are willing to accept from other people. I believe (despite the name), self esteem is actually about everyone BUT ourselves.

I don't care what I look like, how smart I am, how successful I am. My thoughts on those things are irrelevant. I believe without doubt that I deserve to be treated with respect, and I always will be.

If you don't like yourself, then it's a bit much to rely on anyone else to do so.
If I can't be kind to myself, then I'm in no fit state to have anything to give anyone else.

I don't see self esteem as boastful - more as a case of seeing myself as worth just as much as anyone else. Not worth less. Not worth more. Worth just as much.

YABU, I'm quite happy with myself and have always had good self esteem. It doesn't mean I boast about it, but quietly I think I'm alright and try to do a good job at being a nice person! Obviously there are things about myself I don't like, but I try to change it if I can and not focus on it too much.

My friends use to tease me because they'd all be pointing out their flaws (personality and physical) and I'd just be sitting there quietly not joining in with the self loathing.

Sorry, I totally disagree!

I don't see self esteem as boastful - more as a case of seeing myself as worth just as much as anyone else. Not worth less. Not worth more. Worth just as much

I think I get this as an abstract concept. Applying it inwardly, not so much.

I'm really interested to hear everyone's takes on this. I do feel that my opinion isn't worthwhile (years of being told it's wrong) and that I'm not worth the same as everyone else, trying to make myself smaller and take up less space and not get in anyone's way. It's truly shitty but I really don't get that it can be any other way.

Those who are reporting good self esteem - how do you reconcile when people are unkind/point out character flaws in you? Doesn't it shake your core belief in your self?

Well firstly, unkindness isn't always the same as pointing out flaws. Unkindness may or may not have any truth in it. If the intent is unkind, whether truthful or not, that says more about the other person than about me.

With good self esteem, you are better able to evaluate someone's reference to what they see as a character flaw for what it is. As with unkindness, it might be that they're way off the mark, in which case I might feel aggrieved, but can rationalise and either brush it off or correct the misapprehension. If it is true (and with good self esteem, you are better at being able to be honest about whether such a comment does have any truth in it, or not) then I have the choice to do something about it, decide that it's not important, so do nothing about it, or decide that I care so little that I'm not going to give it a second thought.

For me (rather unhappy childhood, self esteem better now than it was then but it doesn't come naturally) I've found the concept works better looking at my kids than myself. For me they are this perfect pair of people, and what they say and do is dear to me because they are them, and I am their mum, and that's how it works. They don't need to impress me, don't need to set the world on fire - they need only to exist and be themselves fotr me to be properly proud of what I did in bringing them into being.

I hope they can have the same feeling for themselves - it's a feeling of not needing to earn your place in the world, of simply deserving it because you exist.

You also asked "Those who are reporting good self esteem - how do you reconcile when people are unkind/point out character flaws in you? Doesn't it shake your core belief in your self?"

It used to is the short answer, but I learned that in between experiencing this and reacting to it, you can insert a conscious thought. Why is this person criticising me? Are they being a friend, do they have my best interests at heart? If they're not being my friend by criticising, I'm upset a little that someone is being nasty to me but I can shake it off fairly quickly. What is actually harder for me sometimes is if someone is giving genuine well meant criticism that hits the spot - I find it hard to admit if there is something I should be changing.

My experience, I think because of my very early childhood, is that it's not easy or maybe even possible to change the sort of gut emotional responses. But I have found it possible to sit back from my emotions and question what's going on. With awful people who I have to get along with, I have a thing: I just say to myself "OK I'm going to imagine that scowl on your face is just what your face does, it's nothing to do with me" and carry on regardless.

Some years ago I was at an Employment Tribunal (professionally!) where there was only a thin partition wall between the men's loo and one of the rooms where the tribunals met to consider their decision.

While the case I was on was still grinding on I used the loo and heard a tribunal discussing another case. And I clearly heard a raised female voice say She has not got low self-esteem, she is just realistic.

OUCH!

"The problem with those who seem to have 'high self esteem' is that they tend to disregard the negative impacts they may have had."

Well, yes. That's because (as long as you're not being spiteful or a user) it's can be fine to negatively impact other people IMO.

We are all as valid as each other. In situations where only one person can "get their own way" having healthy self-esteem helps you realise that your wishes on how you spend your own time are at least as valid as everyone else's.

The PILs are currently cross with DP and me, because they'd wanted us to go round this weekend but we already have plans. We could cancel our plans so as not to disappoint the PILs, but frankly we don't want to- so we won't.

Oh OP, ypou are soooo BU!

self esteem affects so much, not least how people to react to things

simple example

woman meets partners, partners starts to become abusive

woman with normal/high self esteem- what a wanker he is , time to move on
woman with low self esteem - what did I do? this is what I deserve, he is right, I am wrong

ect etc