To think that self esteem is something of a myth?

[User543212345]

I'm currently in therapy for a number of issues but the one thing my therapist keeps coming back to is self esteem/self compassion and liking oneself. It really doesn't make sense to me and seems a bit self indulgent to think "well aren't I rather good and worthwhile" and I just can't fathom anyone in the real world doing that. Surely it's a bit smug and boastful?

AIBU to think that it's all a bit made up and most people feel a bit "meh" about themselves?

A lot of people, imho, have far too much self-esteem. Generally, they're the ones unlikely to go and see a therapist.

OP, I can see where you're coming from, though. The problem is it sounds a bit sounds a bit abstract - how do you make yourself like yourself better? The idea that you should start thinking "Oh, I'm fabulous me" is rather cringe-inducing. Perhaps what is more helpful is being a bit easier on yourself when you start to have self-critical thoughts. Do you have a voice inside you that goes: God, you're crap. There you go again being stupid and lazy. Why are you bothering to attempt to do this thing that you'll probably fail at?

If you do have that voice, then what you need to do is recognise it and tell it to shut up.

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But some people, in my opinion, who look like they have high self esteem are in reality, very insecure. First appearance is that that they 'know exactly what they want', will be a bit control freak about what is around them, will often judge other people, and deep down will be very insecure and full of self doubt, difficult to please and demanding.

I don't think that everyone self-esteem is defined in the same way - some people judge their self worth based on their work, achievement, altruism, beauty, the number/quality of friends they have, etc.

Self esteem is also often linked with letting go of bad decisions made in the past and being able to have the confidence to move forward in a positive way.

And to me there's also the question of friends/partners being one's own mirror. If you have people around you who constantly try to give you a negative image of yourself it's very difficult to then have confidence and high self esteem. And if it's your mum/dad who consistently gave you a negative image of yourself when you were a child, then it's even more difficult to move on.

I agree with Strictly those who are full of it are actually very insecure .

This is a very timely thread for me and I have been reading with lots of interest.

I can relate to self esteem being linked to the gap between where you are and where you think you should be. I've always seen myself emerging as a community leader in some way shape or form- and I couldn't be further away from this...

Definitely a lot of food for thought here.

Do you have good self confidence in something you do? A skill or hobby maybe, where you are confident? Confident that you know what you are doing. Where if someone told you a wrong thing, you'd easily ignore them because you know they are wrong, you'd not be bothered. If they were right, you would happily listen and be untroubled by that too, you'd even be happy to learn something new.

If so, imagine feeling that way about your looks, your general opinions, your worth etc. That's good self esteem.

But some people, in my opinion, who look like they have high self esteem are in reality, very insecure. First appearance is that that they 'know exactly what they want', will be a bit control freak about what is around them, will often judge other people, and deep down will be very insecure and full of self doubt, difficult to please and demanding.

^ this, a million times this.

Having self esteem is not about thinking you're wonderful all the time. For me, it's more an acceptance of yourself, your strengths and weaknesses and acceptance of life around you.

It's about making a decision and owning it, not fannying around looking for reassurance about it, whether that decision is which shampoo to buy or whether to sell your house.

I was that control freak, probably judgmental of others who didn't reach my perceived standards, yet under it all I was so insecure I stayed in the same job for 15 years when I could have done so much better for myself.
It's amazing the lengths an insecure person will go to to show everyone they're not insecure or lacking in self esteem.....

But some people, in my opinion, who look like they have high self esteem are in reality, very insecure. First appearance is that that they 'know exactly what they want', will be a bit control freak about what is around them, will often judge other people, and deep down will be very insecure and full of self doubt, difficult to please and demanding.

Totally agree. If someone appears to have too much self esteem then in all likelihood they don't have enough ime.

A timely thread for me too...I've been thinking a lot about this recently. I think it is also wrapped up with issues of resilience too. Those with higher self esteem seem , to me anyway, to be better at fending off lifes' rubbish!

Developing resilience to lifes' set backs IMO increases self esteem.

Even in middle age I still am fighting this one. Life appears to be one long line of set backs! Where is the line between not being resilient enough and being so hammered by life that your resilience and self esteem are constantly under siege!

Do you have good self confidence in something you do? A skill or hobby maybe, where you are confident? Confident that you know what you are doing. Where if someone told you a wrong thing, you'd easily ignore them because you know they are wrong, you'd not be bothered. If they were right, you would happily listen and be untroubled by that too, you'd even be happy to learn something new. If so, imagine feeling that way about your looks, your general opinions, your worth etc. That's good self esteem.

This completely sums it up for me.

Do you have good self confidence in something you do? A skill or hobby maybe, where you are confident? Confident that you know what you are doing. Where if someone told you a wrong thing, you'd easily ignore them because you know they are wrong, you'd not be bothered

I fall down on this - in that when someone tells me I'm shit at something I know I'm good at it makes me question my belief that I'm good, and makes me feel like I've been deluding myself in thinking I'm good (even though all the evidence shows that I am actually pretty damn good at it).

imagine feeling that way about your looks, your general opinions, your worth etc. That's good self esteem

So what is the bit about believing in my abilities? Not self esteem? This is very confusing.

I think self-acceptance means not constantly bullying yourself. Treat yourself as well as you would a friend: many of us don't do this.

PS I have character flaws. So does everyone. We're all human.

makes me feel like I've been deluding myself in thinking I'm good (even though all the evidence shows that I am actually pretty damn good at it).

Either mentally or with pen and paper go though all the evidence that you are good at what ever your doing that is being put down. ( Or aspects you are good at)

Spend 5 ten minutes after bad comments or when you hear that voice in your head doing that- proving that voice wrong counter acting it.

Then spend a little time thinking about why that was said -reasons external to you - are they generally nasty, do they actually have any idea about the area, do they gain something by you stopping this activity or feeling bad - examine their motivation. Even if they do actually mean their comments with no malice intended doesn't mean they are talking sense - what do they know? You sort of evaluate them and their comments and I find it helps me dismiss the ones with no merit.

Then work towards challenging such comments.

I did this via phone first time I tried- as the opportunity arose and I guess I'm a bit of a coward. It was just before I was meeting new people a phone call to tell me how bad I was with people but don't worry - I hadn't been till then. I just said you always say this, it's not helpful and look at all these situations I have managed - why do you say this? That was last time I registered that kind of comment from that person. I think they stopped for a while and when they come out with it now I can instantly dismiss it.

Took a few years more after that to not automatically have that voice pop into my head at every social situations - and I found my body language changed when it did. Even now it can still happen - I have to take a deep breath paste on a smile and give myself an internal pep talk - along lines of I've got through worse situations and others are scared unsure too.

I'm sure it techniques I've picked up from a few self help books I read in my 20's - most of those books I found full of crap - and I didn't remember which books these were in or even for sure they are.

They have worked over time though.

Treat yourself as well as you would a friend:

Actually very good summary of that long post of mine.

If a friend was upset by someone comments to them - the above is what I do with them in a talk about it- look you've achieved all this so that's rubbish, why do you think they are saying that? next time point out why they are wrong when they say this to you.

Of course, people who seem full of it often have fragile self-esteem.

Anne Dickson's book "a woman in your own right" explainns it really well.

Ego has to use others to inflate itself. ie, causing drama, garnering an audience, shocking people, or just the harmless; making people laugh, being admired............. all of this is temporary.

Self-esteem is constant. The person doesn't need to generate drama or upset or admiration to bolster up confidence.

I feel like I'm confident now and I wouldn't accept anybody treating me badly now but I did in the past.

Now, the area where I need confidence is in the work place! I am actually confident in my own abilities but I'm not confident that other people will see that,have faith in me! so i'm not sure whether i'm confident or not.

"I think self-acceptance means not constantly bullying yourself. Treat yourself as well as you would a friend: many of us don't do this."

so so true

I used to put myself on trial constantly! Such critical dialogues. My psychotherapist told me I had a very critical inner voice.

Once she made a point along those lines, treating yourself like you would treat a friend. She asked me to think of a time that a friend of mine had done something he/she ought to berate herself for. Or something a friend of mine had done that he/she ought to be ashamed of. (I can't remember he exact questions) But it really made me think. I instantly let go of anything other people do. Any decision they make that might cost them, I see the reasons behind that. I'm forgiving to other people. I don't judge other people. I don't remember their mistakes. I don't put other people on trial and make them defend every choice they ever made. And yet, i was doing it to myself!

I am much better now.

The problem with relying on other people to value your worth is that 'multiple external perspectives' does not, and never will, equal objectivity. Five or six poor quality arguments, combined, will never be as valuable as one thorough, informative, intelligent one (DM readers take note). I would rather listen to one person who knows me, respects me and will be honest enough to explain my flaws as well as my good points, than peg my self-worth on 10000 Fakebook friends or message board trolls. And part of my self-esteem is choosing who I value enough to listen to.

There was a vogue many years ago in therapy for affirmations - you were supposed to look in the mirror in the morning and say how fabulous you were. 'Every day, in every way, I am getting better and better'. I couldn't do it. I would end up impersonating the White Queen in Through the Looking Glass when she turns herself into a sheep. 'Better and better and be-e-e---eh!' And then I'd get the giggles. Which did make me feel quite good I suppose.

How long have you been in therapy, may I ask? If you're still fairly near the beginning then it makes sense that you just don't "get" what your therapist is trying to say to you.

Your posts show that you don't think you are worth esteem at all, and this is because your self esteem, self worth, self belief are rock bottom.

Learning that you are worthwhile, that your thoughts and opinions carry weight and can be important to others as well as yourself, that you matter to others and to yourself (currently you don't seem to think you do), this all takes time.

You have no good opinions of yourself, because you have had them knocked out of you.

Your first step is to understand that you have as much right to self esteem as the next person.

Your next step is to find something that you consider is good about you - there will be something, even if it's something like "I have good hair" - it's a start. From there, you can find other good things about you, things that you like.
Then maybe you can think about things that other people may have said about you that are good, but that you have tossed away as being untrue, because you don't feel you deserve them. Think again about these things - are there any common features? Can you even remember any positive comments people have made about you?

Self esteem is not a myth and YABU and obstructive to think so BUT that is because of where you are at the moment. Therapy can take a while to get to a breakthrough point (2 years is a common breakthrough point) and until then many many people fight against what they're discovering in their sessions.

Think about it like this - you are facing a brick wall. You know this brick wall, you've lived with it for a long time. It stops you getting anywhere but that's good because you're scared of what is on the other side of it. Therapy will help you to deconstruct that brick wall - but it's scary! You don't know if you're going to like what's behind it! So you might take out a brick at the edge. Then maybe another. The therapist might push you to take out a supporting brick near the middle, but that's too much - too scary, too soon, no thanks. Another edge brick might give you a glimpse of what's beyond - but again it might be too much, so you decide to go to another edge instead. Anything to avoid facing the unknown in case it's worse than what you know!
Slowly slowly you start to come to terms with the removal of bricks, and the eventual disintegration of the wall - and then once you hit the core support bricks, the wall comes tumbling down quite fast. But that takes time (and, as I've said, 2 years is a common period) because you have to make yourself accept what you're doing.

I wish you luck in your therapy - and believe that you will come to accept that you are worth as much as the next person - give it the time it needs to bring down those bricks.

yeh, agree with lyingwitch

When I walked out of my last therapy session I didn't feel any stronger, or any more confident. But what she'd said had sunk in ( a bit1)

and then over time, various things that can't be planned or expected happened, and I could see old patterns, old inclinations to persuade people that my decisions were good ones. I could see that that was what I would have done, and could recognise that now, post therapy :-p I was goinng to have a think about what power other people had over my decision, and if the answer was in fact none, then I was going to make my choice on my own and then tell people afterwards. (not seek their approval beforehand).

So it took a few curve balls for me to realise, yes, I am breaking a few old patterns here! I am able to see the patterns, I'm able to react differently, and yes, it is better!

I didn't walk out the door on the last day feeling 'fixed' though. It's like somebody gives you an ikea self-esteem kit and you have to go home and build it yourself. therapy is so valuable and I recommend it highly, but you do the work yourself too.

wol1068, I remember that fashion. "i am a tiger". It felt silly to me. But if I'd said things like "i am competent, I am efficient, I go the extra mile for people, I am good humoured and clever and I'm good company and a good judge of character" If I'd said that to myself every day as I looked in the mirror, I wouldn't have ended up in an abusive relationship!

I like myself, in pretty much the same way as I like my husband, my sisters and other close friends... None of us are perfect, we all have strengths and flaws, but overall we are all nice people... I have self esteem, and I feel esteem for my loved ones...

I had a friend in the past, as a teenager who I eventually realised was projecting her esteem issues by constantly putting me down... I have learned to avoid people like that, or if I have to deal with them, I mentally translate their words to remind me why they have said such a thing...

I do have moments where my inner voice goes crazy, but I can get over that by talking with my loved ones and getting a more reasoned view...