not tot want to eat halal meat?

[Charis1]

I am finding it harder and harder to avoid. I do my best to ensure any meat I eat has lived and died humanely, and I think a lot of halal meat dies cruelly. I don't want to eat it. But all meat provided at work is halal. Much of the places to eat out cheaply around work and home is halal, and I've even heard a lot of the local super market meat is also halal, even if it isn't marked.

Why can't we have an option of guaranteed non halal meat clearly marked and available?

Charis where do you live that there are no non halal butchers and only halal meat for sale? Do you not have any supermarkets?

I live in Cairo and I can buy non halal meat here.

There is a sizeable Christian minority here but we don't have Muslim meat and Christian meat. We just have meat, and I have never heard anyone getting their knickers in a twist about it.

I was strictly vegetarian for over 20yrs, I now eat meat very very occasionally (less than once a month). I would have no problem eating halal or kosher meat. On balance its more likely the animals had a more humane end because the obligations to treat the animals with kindness are embedded in both of those forms of slaughter. In the end we have no guarantees unless we have done the slaughter ourselves or supervised it.

If you can't do that and want certainty then the only option is to become vegetarian I'm afraid.

On balance its more likely the animals had a more humane end because the obligations to treat the animals with kindness are embedded in both of those forms of slaughter.

Absolute tosh, they all come from the same farms, and if it's non stunned it hasn't been treated with kindness with regards to modern animal welfare standards.

The amount of Jewish people who stay kosher in the states is estimated as somewhere between 0.3-30%. Not very high. The demand for halal meat in the UK is so high it would be silly to think halal consumption had similar low numbers.

Incidentally, I'm interested that many atheists have objected to aspects of the British state and public life which have involved religion in one way or another. Swearing oaths to God or on bibles. Yet suddenly when another religion is involved all these atheists suddenly declare they don't care and it doesn't matter because it's all nonsense anyway. Seems like a double standard to me.

I wonder if the same people would argue the same way if it was revealed that Muslims had taken umbrage that consecrated communion wafers had found their way into biscuits? Personally I think they would have every right to be pissed off if that happened. But I don't think that having the right to full information to decide whether what you eat does or does not comply with your belief system is a right that exclusively belongs to them.

Justanotehrlurker I agree there is an undercurrent of islamaphobia in most of these threads, but we should be able to at least have a conversation.

I don't agree; I see it as the assertion of a culture, through market preferences that are not currently being fully taken on board by providers, which places more importance on animal welfare than human taste.

I know there are vast flaws in this thinking, but I personally think that's the mark of advanced thinking, of a lack of selfishness in not putting yourself and your own preferences first, with a callous disregard for believing that it doesn't matter how animals are slaughtered, as long as you don't see it (and there are some very glib statements on the internet).

The way in which vast numbers of animals are treated in Muslim countries is absolutely appalling. That must have some effect on Muslim attitudes towards slaughter. (that is not to say that all Muslims treat animals badly, but things do happen to animals in some countries that are predominately Muslim that were made illegal here over a century ago).

I agree that there is an undercurrent of racism in threads like this. It can be exploited like that, people can insist that it's being 'hidden' and is forcing sharia through the back door blah blah.

But surely the best response to this is to put a label the on the box? Muslims can be clear they are eating halal and won't have to miss out on halal meat which is currently unlabelled or ask the same question every time they go into sandwich shops.

People who don't like it are given a similar right to make their own choices and can't moan about islamification through the back door or hidden sharia.

Hey it's your body, it's your choice what gets put into it.

You don't have to justify it to us, or anyone else, you don't even have to have a rational reason, because it's only your happiness and comfort and personal boundaries at stake, nobody else's.

YANBU.

But I don't think that having the right to full information to decide whether what you eat does or does not comply with your belief system is a right that exclusively belongs to them.

Well said Aermingers

there is no material difference between halal and non halal meat as slaughtered here in the UK, except the tape of the Qur'an playing and the animals not seeing the others being killed

Not sure that's actually true.

Actually it is, but many people like to slag off halal meat. In a previous job another teacher was quite vocal about the college 'only served halal meat and it isn't even killed to British standards'.

I tried to get a word in edgeways about the fact bacon and pork sausages are never halal but she was convinced.

Yes we should know how animals are kept and killed for meat, but most people don't really care. I agree it should be labelled, but not just as 'halal' but whether stunned or not.

And then there is the whole debate about fish, don't think they are ever stunned.

Nobody asked for exclusive rights.

I actually think people's opinions about what food other people can refuse to ingest, should never be listened to and are of no value.

We live in a liberal society with free choice, which food someone else reguses to eat is not something to be decided by democratic process.

sashh it isn't true if you are Sikh.

Omg alteredimages that is such a good point about Christians in Egypt not complaining about halal meat.

ArcheryAnnie

Which bit isn't true?

Are you referring to Sikhs who won't eat meat that has been prayed over?

Most of the Sikhs I know/have known don't care. If you are a baptised Sikh you would care, but then you would probably be vegetarian.

Jatkah (?SP) is traditionally beheaded and I am unaware of this method being used in the UK.

Just to add spice tot he mix I know Sikhs who won't eat Beef.

People are acting as though Muslims deliberately don't want meat being labelled. Almost like we are being blamed for it not being labelled. We don't care! What's it got to do with us?!
Take it up with the people in charge of labelling and stop bashing us. We buy halal meat that we 'know' is halal so a label is not of interest to us. In a supermarket the halal meat counter is very very very clearly labelled and signposted. I have absolutely no idea about the meat in the aisles because Muslims don't buy their meat from there. We buy from a halal butchers or the very clearly signposted halal counter in a supermarket (if it has one...not all of them do you know!)

Also as always the same posters have to come on to these threads and get a bit of Islam bashing in. Every. Bloody. Time.

If you want your meat labelled then lobby for it but it has nothing to do with Muslims so just leave us out of it eh?
Can't we ever go about our lives in peace without being blamed for everything?

Being anaemic and needing to take iron tablets doesn't prevent a person from being vegetarian or, largely speaking, vegan, so let's get that myth out the window.

Like it or not it's not a myth that halal or kosher slaughter is a fucking horrible way to die but don't kid yourself that a captive bolt gun or electric stunning is an acceptable or easy death because frankly that's nothing but a panacea for your conscience.

There's a simple solution to this even if you aren't prepared to take the humane route and cut all meat and fish out of your diet. Simply don't eat meat in any situation where you believe it could have been killed even MORE inhumanely than the standard UK practice. Ask for a vegetarian alternative. Decline the meal. Do what you need to.

It may interest you to know that Tesco are very good at supplying, upon request, a monthly list of foods stocked which are currently vegetarian or vegan. I don't know if they do it but I suspect that they might supply information on halal/kosher meat stocked and alternatives if you emailed their head office.

It rarely goes down well on here to say that halal/kosher is barbaric because some posters appear to be incapable of separating political and religious liberalism from genuine compassion and humanity. I don't give a fuck what religion you are. Just stop the suffering.

I used to take liquid iron a while back.

pyjamas is absolutely right. If you are unconsciously buying halal chicken or lamb from the supermarket then that is because the companies that mass produce meat have found it easier to slaughter ALL the meat in a supposedly halal way then label some of it for the halal market. Nothing to do with Islamification of British society. It's more to do with the shitty mass production methods of the meat industry. If you go to an Indian restaurant or a kebab shop and object to being served halal meat (at least it will be labelled as such) then that's tough. You have the freedom to eat somewhere else (same goes for Muslims who complain about non-halal meat being served in restaurants).

"Incidentally, I'm interested that many atheists have objected to aspects of the British state and public life which have involved religion in one way or another. Swearing oaths to God or on bibles. Yet suddenly when another religion is involved all these atheists suddenly declare they don't care and it doesn't matter because it's all nonsense anyway. Seems like a double standard to me"

Why? I wouldn't object to you swearing on the bible if you want to.

sashh I've got Sikhs in my family. Saying "most Sikhs don't care" is irrelevant - many people of other religions don't follow strictly the dietary requirements of those religions, but you still wouldn't feed it to them without knowing their views very well and/or getting their consent first. (eg some of my Hindu rellies - the younger ones - will eat beef but not in front of the kids.) This is why clear labelling is important.

Incidentally, I'm interested that many atheists have objected to aspects of the British state and public life which have involved religion in one way or another. Swearing oaths to God or on bibles. Yet suddenly when another religion is involved all these atheists suddenly declare they don't care and it doesn't matter because it's all nonsense anyway. Seems like a double standard to me.

let me even that out a bit then. French above said that he/she specifically doesn't buy halal meat because of the religious aspect and I can see that. I don't want any of my money supporting any religion and already resent all that happens in britain to steal my money to give to the god fearing. all of it should stop.

However, I also think there is an under current of islam bashing here. If you are a-ok with standard british slaughtering practices, but jump out of your skin when you see halal, it's not the cruelty you object to.

I am vegetarian so don't buy any meat, but obviously clear labelling should smooth things over. But that has nothing to do with muslims - that has to do with our regulations.

I am a vegetarian. I don't agree with any method of killing an animal. It's my belief. My other family members all eat meat and my dh is an atheist.

I am also RC. If I did eat meat let's say, I would avoid halal meat purely because I don't agree with the words said during the prayer and at the point of slaughter. This doesn't make me an Islamaphobic or a Muslim basher. It only means as a practising RC, I won't eat eat halal meat. I realise I cannot catch Muslim no more than someone refusing to swear on the bible can catch Christianity. We are both following our own religious beliefs.

I object to halal meats being the default meat when catering for large numbers of people, for example schools, prisons and hospitals. All religions are equal and should all be equally respected and equally treated. So people have a right to know exactly what they are eating whether that person in Muslim, Buddist, Jewish, Catholic atheist and so on.

I think everyone needs to be more tolerant towards other people's views without jumping in and branding someone a phobic. People are too frightened to open their mouths incase they inadvertently cause offence. We use the racist card and the phobic card far too quickly.
We are in danger of controlling people with the fear factor and it's oppressive.

The praying over the animal before and during slaughter is important to certain faith's and quite rightly so. It's also quite rightly so that certain faiths will not agree to this and abstain. Abstaining does not equal racism/phobia. For example, I am heterosexual. I do not oppose gay marriage or gay rights and why should I, however personally I would not like to become involved in a homosexual relationship as being straight, it's not something that I personally could do. That doesn't mean I am homophobic. I can respect another persons sexuality and their rights without wanting to partake, again that doesn't mean I am homophobic either.

I disagree with wanting labels on meat to be nothing to do with Muslims. If we all exercised religious tolerance towards each other we would indeed understand exactly why different religions may need labels on foods. It's as important to me, even as a vegetarian, that meat is labelled clearly so as to equally respect all faiths. If someone asks if something on a menu contains halal meat regardless of religious beliefs, that is not a phobia or racism etc. It's a fair and equal question to be asked by any faith follower. It's important as a RC that a person of another faith isn't given the holy bible to swear on in court. I can't say it's nothing to do with catholics we don't care etc.

We all need to try to get along in this multicultural world and accept that our differences in beliefs don't need to make us opposed to oneanother, they can be acknowledged and followed or acknowledged and abstained from in equal measure surely.

I am not trying to belittle anybody, it's just that there seems to be so much upset on here and in Rl. We all.should try harder to get along and respect our differences in equal measure.

There's a simple solution to this even if you aren't prepared to take the humane route and cut all meat and fish out of your diet. Simply don't eat meat in any situation where you believe it could have been killed even MORE inhumanely than the standard UK practice. Ask for a vegetarian alternative.

But why would I want to take personal responsibility for something when I can blame a demonised minority?