not tot want to eat halal meat?

[Charis1]

I am finding it harder and harder to avoid. I do my best to ensure any meat I eat has lived and died humanely, and I think a lot of halal meat dies cruelly. I don't want to eat it. But all meat provided at work is halal. Much of the places to eat out cheaply around work and home is halal, and I've even heard a lot of the local super market meat is also halal, even if it isn't marked.

Why can't we have an option of guaranteed non halal meat clearly marked and available?

In my opinion YABU...

No matter how it is killed, the animal is going to die.
Yeah, ok, traditional Halal slaughter where the animal's throat is slit and it drowns in its own blood while still fully conscious is pretty brutal, but I can't imagine taking a couple of hundred volts to the brain in a non-halal abattoir is very pleasant either!
At the end of the day, humans eating meat is part of the circle of life - we have canine teeth for a reason - think about animals in the wild. When a lion rips an antelope's jugular out, the antelope is going to suffer, and be eaten anyway. Same thing. We just buy our meat in packets rather than hunting it.

And like others have said...If you really cared deeply about the animals not suffering, then you would have become vegetarian by now surely?

I have seen so many of these threads come and go and I often wondered what people thought of as halal slaughter. then I read this article in the Daily Mail last year with a description box on halal and kosher slaughter and realised how the incitement to islamophobia occurs even as the journalist appears to report fact.

in the info box in the article it begins:

HALAL
"Halal slaughtering involves cutting through the large arteries in the neck with one swipe of a blade, while a Muslim butcher recites a religious verse."
"All blood is then drained away since the consumption of blood is forbidden under Islamic law."
"Under Islamic law, an animal must be slaughtered by having its throat cut while it is conscious."

whereas, describing kosher slaughter:

KOSHER

"Before slaughtering, the animal must be healthy and uninjured and a sharp knife is used to slice through the main arteries and windpipe, causing a drop in blood pressure that causes the animal to lose consciousness. Jews believe this is a way of killing that shows 'respect and compassion' as set out in Jewish law."

we use the same method for exactly the same reasons as in kosher slaughter, but the description of the muslim method is designed to evoke a very different response in the reader to the description of the jewish method where sharp knife, single clean cut, drop in pressure ...., for the purpose of respect and compassion etc. are all said to keep most of the ire towards the muslim way.

notice how they contrast the two explanations for the same method?

the word 'blade' is used in the halal paragraph, not knife as in kosher paragraph below , (blade more associated with=> war of course!)

the word 'swipe' (verb:hit or try to hit with a swinging blow) is used not 'slice' (to make it seem clumsily done or shallowly, not properly)

only in the muslim description do they mention a religious invocation, not in the kosher explanation, to specifically make us 'other', whereas, we worship the same God as the majority religion here.

the 'blood drained away for islamic law', this originates from OT law too, but that isn't mentioned in the kosher explanation below, again, to invoke imagery of the muslim as 'other', 'barbarian', 'bloody',

the last sentence

'animal must be conscious while having its throat cut'

• is to make it as if the purpose is so the animal suffers the most whereas in the kosher bit that requirement isn't mentioned. furthermore - the blurb there says that the single cut is to make the animal lose consciousness quickly and a 'jews believe' only, but that is why we muslims follow the halal slaughter method also - we do it for the same purpose - but in the explanation of halal slaughter only that the animal must be conscious beforehand, not 'to lose consciousness after'.

see how clever all of that is? just the words used, careful omissions, sly mentions, half truths, cue the comments below that halal slaughter should be banned in the UK.

whereas, actually, it is Islamic law that can accommodate stunning pre slaughter if it becomes required in UK law, whereas in kosher law it is entirely forbidden,

and no mention that already the overwhelming majority of UK halal meat IS stunned before slaughter just as conventional meat is. even the secularism society acknowledges and reports on that here:

www.secularism.org.uk/uploads/religious-slaughter-of-animals-briefing.pdf

and we could just shrug our shoulders and say 'ahh that's them all the time', except, articles like that fuel the far right in targetting and hatred of ordinary muslims.

sorry just to continue that info box was almost genius in how it manipulates the reader. no wonder so many people without knowing the issues just intrinsically feel that halal slaughter is 'cruel'. heck i would too if i read that fact box because of the parts it chooses to mention and not mention in the descriptions of the two same slaughter procedures.

sorry to harp on but its just such a good example this article: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2574456/Stop-slashing-animals-throats-ritual-slaughters-halal-kosher-meat-says-new-leader-Britains-vets.html

on how that paper and the media in general sows islamophobia in its readership.

in the halal explanation bit it mentions 'muslim butcher', but it doesn't mention 'jewish butcher' in the kosher bit.
opening up the 'theyre taking all our jobs' front, as well as, 'gosh even the poor animals are not saved from muslim barbarians'.

whereas, halal meat can be by a Jewish/ Christian butcher as long as God's name is mentioned, not just the word 'Allah', and the same process is taken.
i thought more about the 'all blood Is drained away' part, why did they mention that if not to try and make it as bloody as imagery as possible also? as if the end goal of halal slaughter is for the slaughterman to stand and watch the animal bleed to death.
notice how they try to make the kosher explanation more scientific and precise, 'sharp knife slices through main arteries and windpipe, causes a drop in blood pressure, so animal loses consciousness...'. whereas in the paragraph above on halal slaughter, it is only that 'animal must be conscious before'.

looking at it objectively that article is a perfect example of the islamophobia that masks racism don't you think? because of that purposeful difference given in the description of the two same processes. the BVA made their statement about religious slaughter in general, but the DM writer wanted to whip up islamophobia in the 'description box' by that artful explanation. racism because really the only difference is that kosher the knife is held by a white hand, whereas halal the knife is held by a brown hand. same old, same old.

its also an attempt to divide and conquer because muslim and jewish groups stand together on the religious slaughter issue, as with circumcision, as with rules on autopsy and burial etc.

samG76 half of every kosher sheep in the Uk ends up in the mainstream meat market (kosher is never stunned)

Gobbler's The 'happy meat' argument is a complete fallacy, a panacea for the conscience

Well, actually, no. There are all sorts of chemicals naturally released by animals which can taint the taste of meat. Adrenalin is certainly one, and the more anxious the animal becomes, the more adrenalin it produces. The most famous is probably skatol, from uncastrated male pigs. The UK market isn't sensitive to boar taint, interesting enough (unlike, for example, Germany).

Great that the OP came back to intelligently debate their ignorance oh wait, they didn't

I'm not remotely ignorant, and I have actual been at work, where I have attended two meals with colleagues, one working lunch, and one leaving do, at both the option was halal meat or nothing.

I have killed enough animals myself to know you do it the best way you can, and cutting an animals throat is NOT the best way you can. What ever anyone says, it is blatently NOT quick or painless.

of course, you cannot know exactly what a dying animal is experiencing, but a broken neck, or bullet to the brain can lead to a very fast death with no obvious pain or distress.

I have considered being vegetarian, but it isn't really likely to be possible until after the menopause, at least, as I am so prone to severe anaemia, the medical advice has always been to take iron tablets and remain a meat eater. It isn't only because of animal welfare, but also for environmental reasons that I would like to be vegetarian, or at least limit the meat I eat. However, as it is not currently possible to cut down any further, I do go out of my way to only buy and eat meat that is cruelty free, but it isn't easy at all. There are no butchers around here except halal ones.

A non-Muslim person says they don't wish to eat Halal meat and they get slated or accused of being racists.

A Muslim person says they don't wish to eat non-halal meat and that's fine.

Maybe the non-Muslim person is an atheist and does not believe in the animals being prayed over?

Maybe the non-Muslim person is an atheist and does not believe in the animals being prayed over?

If you're an atheist, what difference does it make if the animals are prayed over, sung over, chanted over, sung over, belly-danced over?

I'm an atheist and I couldn't give a stuff if an animal is prayed over or not. Most atheists really don't care about that kind of thing because we tend not to get our knickers in a knot about religion.

No meat is cruelty-free, no matter what it says on the packaging.

Aermingers that's quite an assumption about the likelihood of Jews eating non- Kosher friends. I had a lot of Jewish friends at university in the States and almost all of them only ate Kosher food.
Lucy I think you'll find it pisses off a lot of people in this country when a Muslim insists on only eating Halal meat.
Of course when my Muslim children happily ate non-Halal meat at school they were told by other Muslim children that they were bad Muslims and we were shunned by their parents. We were gutted

YANBU to care, OP. But I have to disagree with you about the iron - it is perfectly possible to be a vegetarian and get enough iron in your diet, and take iron tablets if necessary.

I am not concerned about animal cruelty in this situation for the reasons already stated. However I don't think religion has any place in my food and think it's disgraceful/ frankly bizarre The amount of meat put through a religious ritual before being sold.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2623879/We-Muslims-appalled-sale-halal-meat-stealth.html

This article is by a progressive and LIBERAL Iman called Dr Taj, a Muslim who fought against apartheid in SA and is now fighting conservative repression in Islam in the UK.

He says "I could be a Muslim, a Christian or a Jedi warrior. Whatever my beliefs, I have a right to enjoy my meal without any hidden agendas

Pizza Express, one of Britain’s favourite food institutions, admitted this week that all the chicken it serves has been killed according to traditional halal methods. Now it turns out that the meat in many supermarkets is also halal — though there is no recognisable label to indicate this fact to consumers

This is covert religious extremism and creeping Islamic fundamentalism making its way into Britain by the back door. It is completely wrong that the food sensitivities of Britain’s Muslims — who amount to just 4.8 per cent of the population — should take precedence over the other 95 per cent.

Halal meat should never be forced on customers without their knowing, surreptitiously and using clandestine methods. It’s unfair to everyone, non-Muslims and Muslims alike. It’s deception on a grand scale for the former, while it could fuel bitter resentment against the latter.

I’m a dedicated Muslim, a devout religionist, an imam and intellectual scholar of Islam, but I eat whatever food is placed before me, with the obvious exception of pork. If you’re kind enough to invite me to your home, I would eat whatever meat you chose to serve: turkey, lamb, chicken, beef … anything except pork.

A dedicated devout imam and scholar of Islam^.

I think he is brilliant and needs more support he also allows men and women to pray together .

Wake up people for goodness sake!

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2623879/We-Muslims-appalled-sale-halal-meat-stealth.html

that's quite an assumption about the likelihood of Jews eating non- Kosher friends.

Since when are jews eating their friends?

I teach in Oxford, and when I go to dining halls in the university, I eat what is available. I must say, I’m partial to a slice of steak.

At the point of consumption, before I put the food in my mouth, I give thanks, with a brief prayer that Muslims have been saying for more than 1,400 years.

I say: ‘In the name of God, the most Merciful, the most Gracious.’ Christian readers will recognise what I’m doing — it’s very similar to the concept of saying grace.

The Koran says we cannot eat slaughtered meat unless the name of God exclusively has been pronounced over it, not any other deity or idol.

So, it does not really matter if, when that cow or lamb was slaughtered, the abattoir workers were saying prayers or playing heavy rock music at full blast on their radios. The individual prayer just prior to actual consumption makes the meat fit — halal — to eat.

But if the Koran does not insist on what have become the customary halal methods, why are they now so prevalent in Britain? One reason is that religious zealots and theological ideologues are deliberately promoting confusion about halal to sow discord and resentment

^ .

As a British Muslim — and I underline the word ‘British’ — I want to see full transparency when I go to the supermarket. I want to know the true provenance of the food I buy, and it’s essential that businesses start labelling food better and accurately.

It is high time the white, liberal, Guardian-reading classes stopped behaving like apologists and woke up. There is a fundamentalist Trojan horse in our midst, and we must take corrective action.

Antiquated customs like the insistence exclusively on the Hadith version of halal meat only serve to entrench that fundamentalism. They should be rooted out and consigned to the dustbin of history. They have no place in a modern British society, where Muslims wish to be fully integrated and part of the UK mainstream.

If you're concerned about the provenance of your meat, perhaps you should just not eat any dead animals.

WHY DON'T YOU USE BOLD AND CAPS?????!!!!!!!

Eating non-Kosher friends! It's been a long day...

we know you like this bloke you post that on every thread

We don't have the land mass for a truly vegetarian population, also people are forgetting that a.) people want to eat meat and b.) we are omnivores by nature.

A lot of the animal feed is also the low grade vegetables that isn't good enough for human consumption, and to prevent the vegetarian utopia many pests are killed to prevent crops being ruined (which is often conveniently ignored)

As a PP has mentioned, a non Muslim wanting clear labelling and worried around reports of not stunned meat not really being a part of current animal welfare standards is considered a racist and should go vegetarian, is slightly missing the point and are quick to jump to conclusions.

I agree there is an undercurrent of islamaphobia in most of these threads, but we should be able to at least have a conversation.

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/reform-of-kosher-and-halal-slaughter-practices