Would you tell BIL that MIL had died?

[BouncingFrog]

Have name changed for this as the facts may identify me.

This is more a WWYD, rather than an AIBU as DH has no idea what to do. It may be long and I'll try not to drip feed.

Long story short. BIL and SIL are no-contact with the rest of the family and have been since 2008, following a very spectacular family row regarding the family business which BIL & SIL caused by their behaviour, and resulted in very expensive, drawn out legal action.

MIL was very close to BIL (BIL was her PFB favoured son) and was devastated by this, but sucked it up and dealt with the no contact because that was BIL's choice and she was between a rock and a hard place choosing between BIL & DH/FIL. She tried to offer olive branches and contact BIL via friends, but was blanked. She then was very ill and ended up in hospital.

DH rang BIL at work to let him know that their mum was gravely ill. DH had to leave a voice message, which we know BIL got, because although he didn't bother to visit, BIL sent a get well card to the hospital. MIL then came out of hospital, developed really serious dementia and ended up in a nursing home. Where she currently is. She is going downhill rapidly, as in, the grim reaper is knocking.

BIL knows that MIL is very ill, as he attended a local funeral for a family friend where he was seen by DH and a number of mutual friends - 2 of whom made a deliberate point of telling him that his mother was very, very ill and that she was in a nursing home. That knowledge still didn't facilitate contact from BIL.

We currently have no idea where BIL lives because he moved away, nor do we have current phone numbers for him because he changed job. We can track him down via various mutual contacts if we really have to, but it will be very laborious.

The family rift between BIL and DH/PIL is HUGE. There is absolutely no question - it will never be repaired because there is far too much bad blood because of the family row, and consequences of BIL's actions were too horrific. DH is still salvaging the business and will be for at least another 5 years. PIL had to give up their retirement and home to secure it. FIL wants to kill BIL if he ever sees him again. It's not good.

So if you've read this far, thank you. The question is - WWYD? Would you tell BIL that MIL had died, or would you say fuck it, he doesn't deserve to know?

DH is torn and has no idea what to do when his mum eventually dies. On one hand, he is saying not to bother telling BIL because he clearly doesn't give a shit about MIL, has never visited her, has never asked after her, so doesn't need to know - he deserves to find out by accident.

The other part of DH is saying, well actually he DOES need to know because it's his mum, DH should play the bigger person and give BIL the chance to pay his last respects at her funeral.

I'm staying out of DH's decision making process and supporting what ever choice he makes, because I will not tell him what to do. I am however his sounding board. ~

MN collective- I'm looking for help!

MIL wants him to know. That's all that matters. Your FIL can go eat dirt. Her wants outweighs his wants.

What BertrandRussell said: keeping BIL informed is correct, even if he does nothing with the information. Not keeping BIL informed might be correct under some conditions, but even so, can be seen as pretty cruel behaviour on DHs part.

Is there a mutual contact that can be a conduit? Can distant cousins or his own In-laws perhaps serve as go between? Not that you want to drag others into, but tangential relatives would need to know anyway.

It isnt a waste of police resources, this is one of the jobs they do, tracking people down. Though possibly anyone with time and internet access could do it just as well.

I think you should tell him. Regardless of what has happened before, it's his mother. He won't get a second chance to try and see her first or to go to the funeral.

I would have thought that your Fil's feeling on the matter should determine whether bil is informed or not. If your fil is clear that he does not want bil at the funeral then bil should not be informed until after the funeral.

It is a waste if police resources when you know the person isn't missing and it is well known that there is no contact with the family and there are other means of giving him the info.

BIL HAS been told his mother is very very ill but has CHOSEN to not go and see her?
Why oh why do people think he should still be kept informed even against her husbands wishes?

Should definitely tell him, he deserves to know.
But isn't the question how? - if you don't have any contact info? I suppose you could let a mutual acquaintance do it?

Why oh why do people think he should still be kept informed even against her husbands wishes?

Because its not FIL who's dying.

And perhaps, just perhaps, BIL didnt go to see her previously because he knows how FIL feels and he's respecting his fathers wishes.

Given that I have changed my mind, having read the latest posts...

It is about FIL and DH now. Funerals are for the living not the dead.

If MIL says they should tell BIL, then they should. If she says nothing, bearing in mind he has done nothing when knowing she is gravely ill, then FIL (however poisonous) gets to cast the deciding vote. OPs DH will have to come to terms with his brother after the fact - probably after his dad's own death.

I disagree. Respect is given to the deceased and their wishes are paramount.

he has been no contact since 2008. bil knew his mum is ill but never visited.

op and her dh have in passed made sure he knew info about mil so they have done what they can in the past so why continue to worry thinking about him.

what bil done to the business was obviously very bad as to have cause such a rift in the family.

My opinion remains the same- it's not about the BIl- it's about the OP's dh being in the best possible position for him in the future. Nobody ever regrets being the better man. He might well regret not being.

As I said I think its up to the fil to make the decision why add more stress to the day for someone who DOESNT CARE about his mother

Exactly, by the time of the funeral it's too late to be concerned about MIL's wishes, she won't be there. FIL will be, a living person whose feelings matter.

If MIL wanted any reconciliation or acknowledgement, now is the time.

Just to give you and your DH another pov. I would be happy to argue that trying too hard to 'do the right thing' is actually quite an arrogant, pompous thing to do. It's all about appearances and self-righteousness, based on a claim that he knows better than BIL what BIL wants to and ought to know.

That would not be the case if BIL had no recent information about the family. He does though. Who is your DH to decide what BIL ought to do with that information?

OP says that MIL has tried with BIL over those years and it has not been successful therefore I very much doubt he is too scared of his father to make contact.

Funerals are for the living and in this case I feel FIL has final say.

Just a long shot question, but if your MIL has very serious dementia, are you certain that BIL has not been to visit? Does she remember all of your visits?

I am only asking on the extreme off-chance there was as added angle to this.

So she's not died yet but it's probably going to be soon?

I would say you should tell him that she's died if you can contact him via mutual friends, but that's it. If he doesn't ask about the funeral, don't go out of your way to tell him.

I don't know what I'd do - tell him probably, on grounds of being the better person etc.

But is he really that hard to track down? Doesn't he have an email address you could find online, a social media presence, LinkedIn, anything like that?

Weebirdie I probably would have agreed with you once. Sadly outrageous behaviour at a few funerals has put paid to much of the goodwill I can muster, on my own or DHs behalf.

It is much more complicated when there is a family rift. Pleasant thoughts of honouring the wishes of the dead can often be buried under an inability to forgive the living. And sometimes, when hardship has been caused and olive branches ignored, that is the way it has to be.

Tell your BIL she has died.

Let him find out for himself the funeral arrangements, if he so wishes.
Either by directly asking your husband or through mutual friends/family.

Bit of fence sitting there but it sounds like your DH will be damned if he does (by FIL) damned if doesn't (by himself).

I might be a bit off here, but is there a farm involved OP? And SIL illness? A long previous mumsnet thread?

If I'm right, I think you should go to lengths to inform BIL. FIL almost needs protecting from himself here. He feels like the business IS the family but it's not, not really. A way of life and in his blood, yes.... but ultimately I can't help feeling if BIL isn't told FIL and your DH will one day regret that.

My sister cut our family off when my mother remarried 15 years after our father's death. She did not approve. She hasn't spoken to any of us since.

My mother has forbidden us to tell her of our mother's death/funeral when it happens. We will abide by that.

My sister hasn't earned the right to mourn our mother because of the heartache she has caused.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone asked the nursing home if BiL has ever called and asked after MiL? Is it at all likely he's keeping tabs on her from afar?

I think in this case that what FiL wants should be done. MiL will be gone and following her 'wishes' won't mean a thing to her at that point. If the family really wanted to follow her wishes, they'd be trying to heal the rift now, in her lifetime. Mind you, I'm not suggesting that, some rifts are just too deep. I'm just saying that following someone's wishes regarding a family feud after their death is sort of an empty gesture, iyswim. But FiL will still be here and would be the one to be most hurt or upset if BiL makes a stink at the services.

Perhaps a compromise would be to let BiL know after the services and tell him it's just a courtesy call, that contact with FiL is not desired by him?

My aunt was informed my grandad had died, and the date and time of the funeral. The funeral address deliberately referenced her and her children. Different reason for rift, but similar pattern of non contact.

She didn't turn up, her (adult) children didn't turn up but she still wanted to contest the bloody will, which was split evenly between all children despite the family row

The thing is, my mum at least she knows she did the morally right thing. No way can my aunt blame her siblings for no information.

lottiegarbanzo - DH couldn't give a shit about what other people think. To give not too much away, DH is in a rural industry and the wider community that we live in know exactly what happened. The majority of friends/contacts are equally disgusted at BIL.

STBarnabasEaling - don't know, but there is a visitors book at the nursing home that has never been filled in by him and FIL is there every day, so unlikely.