Is it BU to demand someone change religion before you'll marry them?

[Sansarya]

I've been thinking about this recently as its happened/is happening to two friends of mine.

Friend 1: going out with a Muslim guy for years, they got engaged and then he said that he wouldn't marry her unless she converted to Islam. She was a bit taken aback but agreed to it, even though in her words she thinks "it's a load of rubbish."

Friend 2: her boyfriend wants to get married in the Catholic Church and is insisting that she become a Catholic too as he won't marry someone who isn't, so she's taking lessons and receiving FHC and being confirmed.

However in both couples' cases they were living together before they were engaged, and the Catholic couple have two children. I would've thought that was a bit taboo in their religions too, so don't understand why these guys were willing to ignore that tenet of their faith but are demanding a conversion before marriage. Are they BU?

Converting to Islam just for show, in the knowledge that you can change your mind if you divorce, is all very well if you're going to stay living in Europe or North America, but once you go further afield there are a fair number of countries which still have the death penalty for apostasy on the statue book - it's not necessarily a decision you can reverse.

And whilst I respect anyone's choice to say "I can only marry someone who shares my religion" when it's a free choice; if the recipient of that ultimatum is a SAHP in need of the additional financial security of marriage, it sounds rather more like blackmail.

If the Muslim convert leaves the religion nobody will insist she's still Muslim.

If (I'm betting on when) she gets divorced I would in her shoes stay well away from the Middle East and firmly refuse to allow any children to go either.

Why are these women marrying these men, I don't get it. The men are showing they don't care abut their partners and regard them as something less than them. Convert it I leave. Well don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out then.

Also if the GF of the Muslim man comes from an abrahamic faith she doesn't need to convert at all, he can islamically marry her.

It's fine to want to marry within your own faith, I did, but I made that very clear to DP when he first wanted to be in a relationship with me.

Seriously I'd run whilst I could.

I know lots of churches where the vicar or priest would refuse to conduct a wedding ceremony unless both parties were the "right" religion

I wouldn't even date a Muslim let alone marry one. Heir religion is nuts.

I don't follow a religion.

I wouldn't marry someone who demanded I follow whatever religion they choose to follow.

Bollocks to that!

I wouldn't get involved with a religious man in the first place. Superstition's as much a dealbreaker for me as racism, homophobia, rape apologism or believing in homeopathy.

^^ This is the correct answer.

Superstition's as much a dealbreaker for me as racism, homophobia, rape apologism or believing in homeopathy.

I'd say it's "not as bad" as racism, homophobia or rape apologism - I wouldn't want to even be friends with someone who believed in those.

It's probably "worse" than believing in homeopathy.

I would warn a friend against seriosuly dating someone whose religion they did not share.

I personally wouldn't date someone who believed in homeopathy, but I wouldn't think it worth mentioning to a friend if they were happy to date outside of their beliefs on that matter.

"I wouldn't even date a Muslim let alone marry one. Heir religion is nuts."

Only as far as all religions lack any evidence base. The extremes of any religions are worrying and can be violent. Islam though is no more "nuts" as you put it than either Christianity or Judaism and shares similar roots.

I don't like religion because it enables people to resort to some "higher power" to reinforce whatever prejudices or rules they want reinforced. But you're moving into racist territory if you start slinging insults like that around.

V v unreasonable to ask someone to.marry you, get engaged and then refuse marriage until they change. It is very controlling, if it's that important then make it clear before you live together, have kids or get engaged.

More fool them if they do it, I doubt its is the last unreasonable and controlling thing these men will do!

"I wouldn't even date a Muslim let alone marry one. Heir religion is nuts."

"Only as far as all religions lack any evidence base. The extremes of any religions are worrying and can be violent. Islam though is no more "nuts" as you put it than either Christianity or Judaism and shares similar roots."

Well said Gabilan. I really bit my tongue to not respond to that comment. I do not follow Islam myself, but half of my family do. People should refrain from calling other's beliefs "nuts" with only limited facts. It's fine to have an opinion, but don't insult people!

But hey, this is another sensitive topic all together!

YANBU, that's crazy.

I don't think I'd marry someone who didn't share my religion - but then I wouldn't move in with them, deliberately have their kids and get engaged to them either!!

I think the 2nd one (catholic) sounds like he doesn't really want to get married and is trying to avoid it at all costs.
I am Catholic my DH is not we got married in church he didn't convert we did sign a form to say that our children would be brought up in the faith, which even the priest suggested was outdated. My DH is very supportive and our dd are Catholic (for now until they are old enough to make their own choice) and he takes dd1 to church if I am working and can't make it. I was clear from the outset that faith was important to me I haven't pushed dh to change it's unnecessary.

My Muslim friend's christian husband converted to Islam for her. Don't know if she demanded it (I doubt it as she doesn't practice at all) but it just made life easier and safer for her.

It's not always a partner demanding it to be controlling.

From what? She was already C of E!

Catherine Middleton converted from middle class to upper class. for many people (happyface included I presume) class is a religion.

My Muslim friend's christian husband converted to Islam for her. Don't know if she demanded it (I doubt it as she doesn't practice at all) but it just made life easier and safer for her.

Why would it make life easier and safer for her?

Yes, the people in the OP are being unreasonable, they should have been clear about such wishes earlier in the relationship.

However, people can and do change, what once wasn't a deal breaker can become one, but if that was the case, you wouldn't want someone to do a "paper" conversion anyway.

In the realm of anecdote, I know two men who converted for their not hugely practicing wives, over the years both couples became more religious, so that even if the conversions weren't sincere initially, they were eventually.

I think your two friends are unreasonable to be converting.

" "My Muslim friend's christian husband converted to Islam for her. Don't know if she demanded it (I doubt it as she doesn't practice at all) but it just made life easier and safer for her. "

Why would it make life easier and safer for her? "

Canyouforgiveher - because she comes from a country where you can't really opt out of being a muslim. She wanted to marry in her country with her family there and be able to visit home now and then. It just made it easier. She was also pregnant which another level of difficulty if it was reported.

People always say that people have a choice with religion - it's not always that simple for many folk.

It is unreasonable. Its the reason my mother didnt marry her first bf. Nearly fifty years ago but she wouldnt be told that the decision was the catholic churches. Her then bf couldnt even agree that their future children's religiin (or lack of) was their decision and theirs to compromise over. That man wasnt a bully but that tactic "the nei temerei" (??) It is a bully tactic.

I know two women who have done this - one converted from Protestantism to Catholicism, the other from Protestantism to Judaism. Both seem happy with their decision, afaik.

Oddly I don't know any examples of men who have converted to their wife's religion - anyone know anyone who has done this?

Hackmum see my post upthread.