Is it BU to demand someone change religion before you'll marry them?

[Sansarya]

I've been thinking about this recently as its happened/is happening to two friends of mine.

Friend 1: going out with a Muslim guy for years, they got engaged and then he said that he wouldn't marry her unless she converted to Islam. She was a bit taken aback but agreed to it, even though in her words she thinks "it's a load of rubbish."

Friend 2: her boyfriend wants to get married in the Catholic Church and is insisting that she become a Catholic too as he won't marry someone who isn't, so she's taking lessons and receiving FHC and being confirmed.

However in both couples' cases they were living together before they were engaged, and the Catholic couple have two children. I would've thought that was a bit taboo in their religions too, so don't understand why these guys were willing to ignore that tenet of their faith but are demanding a conversion before marriage. Are they BU?

[Sansarya]

My now-Muslim friends parents in law also wanted her to change her name but that she refused. Her reason for converting (apart from being in love) was that she'd spent several years with this guy and if she refused he'd have broken up with her, so she didn't want to just throw those years away.

[AyeAmarok]

I quite dislike religion, all of it.

I don't like what it does to people.

Making your partner of years, and mother of your children, a convert to your Telefonica is so fucking stupid I don't know where to start.

[Sansarya]

As for the Catholic guy, I only know what my friend tells me about him, but he appears to be one of those men who never help around the house, refuse to do any childcare to give my friend a break (she is a SAHM) and regularly leaves her for a whole Saturday or Sunday to pursue his hobbies. So I'd be having second thoughts about him even if he wasn't insisting she convert!

[Sansarya]

Lol at converting to "your Telefonica" AyeAmorak!

[AyeAmarok]

Telefonica? Religion!!

My phone dislikes religion as much as I do, evidently

[500Decibels]

I don't get why people do it really. I'd tell the guy to get lost.

[AyeAmarok]

Ahhhhh, in that case, I apologise about the religion comments. Religion has nothing to do with it; your friends are unfortunately both just marrying cunts.

For soon to be Catholic friend it's probably worth doing if she's not married, a SAHM, and her partner's a cunt. So she doesn't get left up shit creek.

I just hope he doesn't just keep delaying indefinitely by putting unachievable obstacles in her way.

Next will be "I'm Catholic, so I can only marry you if you are a Virgin".

[vienna1981]

Can somebody please tell me what a 'marriage class' is please ? It sounds very quaint !

[queensansastark]

I know a number of women who had to convert to Islam, take on a Muslim name, start covering their hair etc. in order to marry Muslim men. Their children are being brought up as Muslims and attend Islamic studies starting from a young age.

[littlejohnnydory]

Unreasonable to demand that someone joins a religion but not unreasonable to feel that you can't marry someone who doesn't share your faith.

Agree that it is very pointless to 'convert' without faith. It may have implications in terms of being able to have a particular religious ceremony at the wedding or children being raised in that religion, however.

[fredfredgeorgejnr]

No, it's completely reasonable to make it clear what your conditions are for marriage and down to the other person to agree or disagree to them. Much better than going into marriage without understanding each other.

Also, the people saying "but they do something against what I understand their religion to be, so why insist on this" are just wrong, you can pick and choose whatever parts of religion you want, the labels are still useful for other people.

[BehindEveryCloud]

Unreasonable to demand that someone joins a religion but not unreasonable to feel that you can't marry someone who doesn't share your faith.

^This

[Trills]

if she refused he'd have broken up with her, so she didn't want to just throw those years away

Sunk cost fallacy, gets you every time.

[Coffeethrowtrampbitch]

It's really awful.

My great aunt converted to Catholicism as my uncle was a school janitor at a Catholic school. Their priest didn't believe in mixed marriages so they had to marry in a registry office.

Uncle's sister said they wouldn't be properly married and would have bad luck. Aunt went on to have multiple late term miscarriages and they were never able to have a child.

My aunt still thinks her sil ill wished her. She is 93 now but was talking about it this week and it obviously really upset her. She couldn't have a nice wedding either as her df was Protestant and didn't approve of her marrying a Catholic.

It is madness to pretend to convert, because that's all it ever is, because it will never be 'good enough' for some anyway.

[1Morewineplease]

Utter gobshite!

[ItsRainingInBaltimore]

fred Well I don't disagree with you that people are entitled to have principles, standards, conditions etc attached to marriage - that sounds eminently sensible, but who can take seriously a person who will insist on a religious conversion, if they didn't care sufficiently to date a heathen/infidel in the first place? And if they know that their intended doesn't genuinely share their faith? What on earth is the point?

[Oliversmumsarmy]

All religions consider women subhuman. I might be wrong but aren't Jewish women the head of their households?

I would like to know if the agreement were that the wife converted but the children would be brought up Cof E or what ever the wife's original religion was how many Muslim, Catholic,etc marriages there would be.

Also why don't the Muslim and catholic fiancés convert to their future wife's religion/non religion.

If they truly loved that person then they love them for the who they are not what they want to change them into.

[fatlazymummy]

It's totally unreasonable, but at the same time more fool them if they comply (the women, I mean).
I'm in the group who would never have got involved with a religious person in the first place, because I want to live a 'religion free' life, and most importantly, I wanted my children to grow with as little religious influence as possible. That really means not only marrying (or co-parenting with) an atheist, but someone who actually came from an atheist family.

[fuzzywuzzy]

The marriages will not last, the women will be really unhappy.

It's controlling.

What's going to happen when the 'Muslim' couple have children will friend agree for her future DS's to be circumcised? Will she be happy for her children to be bought up in the Islamic faith? Her fiancé sounds like a hypocrit.

It won't end well.

[HootOnTheBeach]

It's controlling bollocks. I feel sorry for your friends - they need to RUN.

[Jux]

If they truly loved that person then they wouldn't be making these unreasonable demands on them.

Your poor friends, op. What miserable lives they are likely to have.

[fatlazymummy]

fuzzywuzzy that does seem to be what often happens, yes.

[Sansarya]

The Muslim couple do have a child now but it's a DD so the tricky question of circumcision has been avoided. For now. I don't know what will happen if they go on to have a DS later. I know she was relieved to have a girl so that they didn't have to discuss circumcision. She is definitely against it.

[ilovemargaretatwood8931]

Olivers re Jewish women; there are lots of different 'types' of Judaism, ranging from ultra Orthadox to liberal/reform. And of course all the non-religious Jewish people (like my friend who is an atheist, but firmly Jewish in her identity and cultural life).

I know of families from the Orthodox Hasidic community where a wife's relation to her husband and her place in the household is very different from the woman (another friend) who lives with her wife and their adopted child and who attends a Queer shul!