Is it BU to demand someone change religion before you'll marry them?

[Sansarya]

I've been thinking about this recently as its happened/is happening to two friends of mine.

Friend 1: going out with a Muslim guy for years, they got engaged and then he said that he wouldn't marry her unless she converted to Islam. She was a bit taken aback but agreed to it, even though in her words she thinks "it's a load of rubbish."

Friend 2: her boyfriend wants to get married in the Catholic Church and is insisting that she become a Catholic too as he won't marry someone who isn't, so she's taking lessons and receiving FHC and being confirmed.

However in both couples' cases they were living together before they were engaged, and the Catholic couple have two children. I would've thought that was a bit taboo in their religions too, so don't understand why these guys were willing to ignore that tenet of their faith but are demanding a conversion before marriage. Are they BU?

[TTWK]

Makes a mockery of both of the religions.

Now you're making me warm to the idea.

[loveareadingthanks]

It's wrong to demand a conversion by blackmail - convert or I won't marry you. It's not like those are going to be genuinely held beliefs, so what does it achieve.

Actually, anyone who converts (for this sort of reason, not a genuine conversion because their own beliefs have changed) surely couldn't have believed much in their original religion either. Like, yeah today I totally believe X but from tomorrow that'll be wrong and I'll believe something else instead. Like a kid choosing lollipop flavours. Makes a mockery of both of the religions.

[TTWK]

he'd been brought up without any faith and I think he feels he sort of missed out.

So his parents chose not to fill his head with medieval superstitious claptrap and let him come to his own conclusions. I hope he disowned them, they sound vile.

[AllKnickersNoFurCoat]

does the nei temerei still exist?

[DancingHat]

I asked my DH to come to marriage lessons as I'm RC and he's not even baptised (lots of form filling admin for the priest but it's not the end of the world) and I'd always let him know that was the deal if he wanted to marry me. The priest thought DH was the bees knees as he gave excellent answers to all the questions. Clearly a better Catholic than me

I would not have expected him to convert as it should be a big deal of your own free will, not a condition attached to marrying someone who happens to have those beliefs. I am happily married to an agnostic who supports my faith but does not believe in it himself. Surely that's the grown up balance of compromise? If they want to that's fine but anyone who converts to a religion they think is 'rubbish' is not doing anyone any favours in my book.

[pinkelephantsintheroom]

My dh is not Jewish and I am but I wouldn't have dreamed of insisting he convert - not least because he'd have to have a bit of his willy chopped off, which is a big ask!

That said, I only got into a long-term relationship with him in the first case because he volunteered (when we'd only been together about a week!) that if we had any kids he'd want them brought up Jewish - he'd been brought up without any faith and I think he feels he sort of missed out. But I certainly wouldn't have forced that on him. If he hadn't had said that, our relationship might not have been a serious one, though, as that is important to me (though I hadn't really thought about it at that point, as I - wrongly - imagined it would be many years before I had kids). Then again, if he hadn't offered that, he would have been a different person too. I fell in love with someone who was cool about my faith.

In the case of the OP's friends, are they positive about their oh's faiths? If not, I can imagine that causing problems down the line, certainly. And do they have faiths of their own they are being asked to ignore? Also a recipe for trouble.

I think any kind of intermarriage requires lots of conscious compromise and discussion - it won't work if either side is disrespectful or forced.

[keepitsimple0]

Tony Blair converted to Catholicism from CofE after his premiership. His children had been brought up Catholic and apparently he would have done it much sooner if he hadn't been PM.

there are about 30 things wrong with that scenario.

[SamBob]

Oddly I don't know any examples of men who have converted to their wife's religion - anyone know anyone who has done this?

Tony Blair converted to Catholicism from CofE after his premiership. His children had been brought up Catholic and apparently he would have done it much sooner if he hadn't been PM.

[samG76]

I do know a few men who have converted to their fiancees' religion. If anything, they are now more into it that their wives!

Like many of the later posters, I don't think it is unreasonable to marry someone of your own religion, but it's ridiculous to go out with them for ages before saying it's a dealbreaker.

[AllKnickersNoFurCoat]

"Protestantism" that's a label and a half.

There are several denominations who are labelled protestant. I hate that label though as it identifies by what u r not.

One christian religion eg rman catholicism shouldnt face somethingso massive as a conversion if they become c of e.

Not in the same league as say c of e to jewish.

[IPityThePontipines]

Hackmum see my post upthread.

[hackmum]

I know two women who have done this - one converted from Protestantism to Catholicism, the other from Protestantism to Judaism. Both seem happy with their decision, afaik.

Oddly I don't know any examples of men who have converted to their wife's religion - anyone know anyone who has done this?

[AllKnickersNoFurCoat]

It is unreasonable. Its the reason my mother didnt marry her first bf. Nearly fifty years ago but she wouldnt be told that the decision was the catholic churches. Her then bf couldnt even agree that their future children's religiin (or lack of) was their decision and theirs to compromise over. That man wasnt a bully but that tactic "the nei temerei" (??) It is a bully tactic.

[Bambambini]

" "My Muslim friend's christian husband converted to Islam for her. Don't know if she demanded it (I doubt it as she doesn't practice at all) but it just made life easier and safer for her. "

Why would it make life easier and safer for her? "

Canyouforgiveher - because she comes from a country where you can't really opt out of being a muslim. She wanted to marry in her country with her family there and be able to visit home now and then. It just made it easier. She was also pregnant which another level of difficulty if it was reported.

People always say that people have a choice with religion - it's not always that simple for many folk.

[NuggetofPurestGreen]

I think your two friends are unreasonable to be converting.

[IPityThePontipines]

Yes, the people in the OP are being unreasonable, they should have been clear about such wishes earlier in the relationship.

However, people can and do change, what once wasn't a deal breaker can become one, but if that was the case, you wouldn't want someone to do a "paper" conversion anyway.

In the realm of anecdote, I know two men who converted for their not hugely practicing wives, over the years both couples became more religious, so that even if the conversions weren't sincere initially, they were eventually.

[Canyouforgiveher]

My Muslim friend's christian husband converted to Islam for her. Don't know if she demanded it (I doubt it as she doesn't practice at all) but it just made life easier and safer for her.

Why would it make life easier and safer for her?

[Canyouforgiveher]

Catherine Middleton converted from middle class to upper class. for many people (happyface included I presume) class is a religion.

[Sansarya]

From what? She was already C of E!

[Bambambini]

My Muslim friend's christian husband converted to Islam for her. Don't know if she demanded it (I doubt it as she doesn't practice at all) but it just made life easier and safer for her.

It's not always a partner demanding it to be controlling.

[newdawning]

I think the 2nd one (catholic) sounds like he doesn't really want to get married and is trying to avoid it at all costs.
I am Catholic my DH is not we got married in church he didn't convert we did sign a form to say that our children would be brought up in the faith, which even the priest suggested was outdated. My DH is very supportive and our dd are Catholic (for now until they are old enough to make their own choice) and he takes dd1 to church if I am working and can't make it. I was clear from the outset that faith was important to me I haven't pushed dh to change it's unnecessary.

[manicinsomniac]

YANBU, that's crazy.

I don't think I'd marry someone who didn't share my religion - but then I wouldn't move in with them, deliberately have their kids and get engaged to them either!!