Is it BU to demand someone change religion before you'll marry them?

[Sansarya]

I've been thinking about this recently as its happened/is happening to two friends of mine.

Friend 1: going out with a Muslim guy for years, they got engaged and then he said that he wouldn't marry her unless she converted to Islam. She was a bit taken aback but agreed to it, even though in her words she thinks "it's a load of rubbish."

Friend 2: her boyfriend wants to get married in the Catholic Church and is insisting that she become a Catholic too as he won't marry someone who isn't, so she's taking lessons and receiving FHC and being confirmed.

However in both couples' cases they were living together before they were engaged, and the Catholic couple have two children. I would've thought that was a bit taboo in their religions too, so don't understand why these guys were willing to ignore that tenet of their faith but are demanding a conversion before marriage. Are they BU?

[BathshebaDarkstone]

Yes, good grief, you can't make yourself believe something.

[WhirlpoolGalaxyM51]

These men really should have been upfront about this from way WAY earlier on! I wouldn't be impressed at all TBH.

With the RC BTW you don't have to convert fully you can do these classes and things and you have to agree to bring children up in the faith etc but you don't actually have to fully convert or at least you didn't a couple of decades ago maybe it's different now although the church isn't known for being fast moving!

[BeCool]

Unreasonable and hypocritical.

[queensansastark]

And why don't the men "convert" and have a civil ceremony for getting married.

[greeneggsandjam]

Stupid men. The Muslim one is fooling himself. What's the point? He must have an idea that she thinks its a load of rubbish. She needs to refuse. If he was that bothered about his religion then he wouldn't have been going out for her for years in the first place.

The Catholic one, he can have 2 children with her but only marry her when she becomes Catholic? Silly man.

[AnneElliott]

I don't agree people should be forced to convert. DH is Catholic and I'm not even christened! The church married us in the understanding that any kids would be brought up as Catholic.

[RomaFlo]

I'm a Catholic but my husband doesn't believe in any religion.

He told me when we got engaged that he'd like to get married in a church as he knew how much it would mean to me, and I was really chuffed.

In order to get married in our local church we had to attend marriage classes together, which he agreed to and even paid attention

Although I must admit I found some of the classes quite strange and difficult to engage with as I'd obviously been in denial about some of the beliefs within the Catholic Church that I don't agree with

I was really grateful that my DH did all that for me and did it sincerely because ultimately I know he doesn't believe in any of it.

I would never ever ever have asked him to convert to Catholicism, to basically pretend that he believes in something he doesn't.
He can't even begin to fathom why I could possibly have the faith I do but he respects that I do, and I respect that he doesn't, and IMHO that should be enough.

[ilovemargaretatwood8931]

Makes me sad when I hear of people doing this. It's completely unreasonable.

I go to church, I believe in God, and firmly, firmly wanted my DH to carry on being an atheist when we married- because he wanted that, and I cannot imagine requiring him, let alone asking him, God forbid insisting on him changing his religion in order to marry me.

I know someone who's just done a conversion course at my own church in order to (hopefully) fulfil her boyfriend/potential fiancés demand that she is part of his religion in order to be worthy of marriage to him. She is a lovely person, and very much in love. I'm less fond of her bf, I believe that he's controlling and I know that he's jealous.

The thing is, there's no religious requirement at all that spouses have to be of the same religion, in the Catholic church. I cannot understand why he is insisting on it.

[Stitchintime1]

I'd be suspicious that it's just some hoop they want to see you jump through. And if you do, then they know they've got you.

[morethanpotatoprints]

If you truly love somebody you love them for what and who they are.
I doubt if any of these people are virgins, so good enough to have sex with a different religion but not good enough to marry.
I'd tell your friends to run a mile.

[Canyouforgiveher]

highly unreasonable. religion is an entirely personal matter. It would be a red flag for me.

In the case of the woman converting to catholicism,If the priest she is dealing with realises why she is converting - just to get married and without any proper faith - he should refuse to baptise her. I imagine it would be the same in islam - if she is "converting" to a religion she thinks is a load of rubbish, that religion should not accept her.

[keepitsimple0]

In general, I think deal breakers should be spelled out early, out of respect for the partner to be. announcing deal breakers in year 3 is out of line if you ask me and I would take the other side of that on principle.

it also seems odd to be willing to break all sorts of rules for your convenience (living together), but none for your partner's.

but conversion for marriage is weird on principle. you should convert because you believe in the ideas.

[Pumpkinpositive]

However in both couples' cases they were living together before they were engaged, and the Catholic couple have two children.

This is bat shit insane. I don't see anything fundamentally wrong in wanting to marry someone who shares your faith. Plenty of people want that.

But devout believers who want to marry within their faith usually pursue relationships with confirmed believers. They don't fornicate and shack up with non believers and then issue conversion ultimatums 3 children later.

I was raised Catholic and know plenty of people who had "mixed" marriages, ie, Catholic and non Catholic couples. My godmother (Catholic) married a non Catholic within the Catholic church. The only proviso was that he had to agree to raise any children of the union within the Catholic faith (which he did).

I think your chum's paramour simply doesn't want to marry her.

I hope he goes to Confession.

[Skiptonlass]

But it isn't about whether the wife believes or not. They don't really care. Neither Catholicism nor Islam seems to give much credence to the opinions of women.

It's about getting the children brought up in the religion from the get go. Who cares what the wife thinks, the next generation are converts.

That's what's so depressing. The kids have no choice.

[ItsRainingInBaltimore]

Exactly Pumpkin. Exactly.

[500Decibels]

I think, often, people aren't practising in the religion they're born into but want the rituals and want such a thing as their marriage to be recognised within that religion and therefore by their family and community.
From what I've seen, it's often just lip service anyway and they often don't expect their partners to really practice the religion.
I'm not saying I think that's right or wrong, just what I know happens.

[queensansastark]

Islam is a very ritualistic (is that a word?) religion, not just for big life events, whether it comes from the heart or not, Muslims are expected to pray numerous times daily. It 's not just lip service.

[thegreylady]

My ds is married to a Muslim. Her family wanted him to convert but he refused. It hasn't been a problem. Their dc had a Muslim naming ceremony and a Christian baptism. Everyone knew, no one minded.
I am married to a devout Catholic. I had a few chats with the priest about possibly converting. I decided it wasn't for me. We were still married in church although both of us had had annulments. If a partner is being unreasonable about religion then that will be the least of it.

[fustybritches]

Sooooo unreasonable.

I wouldn't consider marrying anyone religious, but I also wouldn't date them, live with them, have children with them or propose to them.

[ItsRainingInBaltimore]

queen Plenty of people who are identify as Muslim do not pray once a month, never mind several times a day, and even among many who do, there is still plenty of hypocrisy and double standards where they cherry pick which elements of their religion they want to adhere too, and blame temptation and the weakness of the human condition for the ones they don't.

Unlike Christianity (certainly in the UK anyway, less so in the US) more Muslims talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Most 'Christians' in the UK have arrived at the point of not even bothering to pretend that they care about 'being Christian' and any connection to Christianity is purely historic/cultural, whereas I think for most Muslims there is still a a deeper spiritual connection and attachment to the faith and it forms a big part of their identity even if they are pretty useless at being goods Muslims on a day to day basis.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Hugely unreasonable and these women are nuts if they go along with it. TBH they should think really, really hard about whether they want to continue in their relationships as this is very very likely to be an indicator of abuse to come.
Both Islam and Catholicism are religions which hate women. All religions consider women subhuman (and are all bullshit anyway) but those are two of the worst. A man who wants his female partner to join his barbaric, ludicrous cult is a man who wants her to Know Her Place.
Honestly, these women need to put their feet down as agreeing to this really will be only the beginning: for the men to be asking it in the first place, they are either determined on their own initiative to take control of the women, or they are giving in to family pressure. And once the woman has said the magic words and been dunked in the magic water, then she will find that the man's family are going to be up her arse all the time and any kids she has will be subjected to unending superstitious crap as well.

[ItsRainingInBaltimore]

Well said SGB.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Mind you, like Fusty, I wouldn't get involved with a religious man in the first place, at least not for more than a shag or two. Superstition's as much a dealbreaker for me as racism, homophobia, rape apologism or believing in homeopathy.

[500Decibels]

I know people married to Muslims who did the 'conversion' and wedding ceremony but don't practice anything else. They don't pray or fast. It was just so the marriage was accepted by the family.
I know one Muslim woman (obviously not practising) who married a man with a Hindu background who had to pretend to be a Hindu with a Hindu name when his extended family visited from India. All at his mothers insistance. It is bonkers but she went along with it as she got why it was so important to her.

[kittycatz]

Very very unreasonable. It should have been discussed early in the relationship and if it was a deal-breaker for the men then at least the women had a chance to end it if they knew they never wanted to convert before children came along not to mention the emotional investment.

Catholics can marry non-Catholics with no need for the non-Catholic to convert.
The men in both cases are being very controlling and probably planned this all along.
It seems like the women have no choice in the matter unless they walk away completely from the relationships.