To want to find out if my kids are safe (and how to do this anyway?)

[wheresthecat]

Bit of a long one but don't want to drip feed.
Up the road a little way the house was sold a few years ago and a woman moved in - has never spoken to any of us in the street, very much keeps herself to herself - this is very unusual in our street as everyone knows everyone, but it's her right.
About six months ago, her son moved in (mid twenties) spending his time between here and another house they have in the city. The only time we see them is in the middle of the night when they come back from Sainsburys - they're never out in the daytime, and the son will sometimes stand staring out of the window, and then shut the blind quickly if he sees anyone looking.

To get to the point, last night we were awoken by a huge commotion, four police vans and paramedics outside the house, the man shouting and screaming, swearing as they tried to get him into the ambulance. He was extremely violent and it took a long time for the police to fully restrain him and get him in the ambulance - we presume he was being sectioned.
One of the neighbours asked if there was anything he could do, but was told this man was extremely violent and dangerous, and to stay inside.

So, this morning, this leaves me wondering about the kids - they are just beginning to go for little walks by themselves (to the corner shop, round the corner to their friends' houses etc. Are they safe with this man around? And how would I find out - would the police be likely to give a definitive answer.
Obviously this man is ill, and I wouldn't ask his mother as I wouldn't want to (very awkward, invading privacy etc) but I would feel so much happier knowing.

Yes, your'e probably right oldbiddy, sadly it would likely be an attempt to get more info rather than actual offering real support. I did wonder that.

Neighbour went to offer "help"- police sent him away with a flea in his ear. He translates this to "thank you very much sir but this man is extremely violent and dangerous so on thi occasion we are regretfully unable to accept your valuable assistance- please think of yourself for once and go home. We won't hesitate to call on you another time"

Bertand

This happened to a relative of mine who has a mental illness he took ill the ambulance came took him by the time the story had got round the village the poor man was in a straight jacket -and hannibal Lecter mask these stories have a habit of sprouting arms and legs its ridiculous

Somehow I'm waiting for the OP to come back and say he was an escaped convict who was on the run and now rightly caught just to finish the thread off on a justified note.

If she comes back that is.

I was a mh nurse for years yes some people can become aggressive and violent when extremely unwell but it but they can also have long periods of being very well and havingvtheir medication managed. I know the media Potray people with say schizophrenia as very violent etc but its usually very few and far between I would say that as this man is now being treated children would most definitely be safe ,but anybody could kick off whether they are mentally unwell or not.

I worked in acute mental health for years staff have been injured by patients but it is not a common occuranc and its usually in response to medication being enforced most people with mental health issues did not randomly go around and randomly assault children and adults !

They dont do they I wish the op would come back and tell us exactly what she was worried about

Hi op. I can understand your concerns but from what you've said your children do not seem to be in danger. A kind smile and "hello" probably wouldn't go amiss to the man's mum when you next see her.

I wonder what danger you think your children are at risk from.

Ah but I have had close hand dealing with severe mental illness. There are some people that are a risk and some who aren't. Being sectioned isn't normal behaviour in that it doesn't happen to the majority of people. For what it is worth i do have empathy. I have been involved in a long term relationship with a man who was as described in the op. Lovely and quiet guy. Caring etc. Until he flipped and then no,honestly I wouldn't want children near him.
I'm not heartless. I loved him. He heard voices. He was sectioned. He slit his wrists. He tried to imprison me in our flat. He threatened to take me with him. Etc. Suffice to say that when medicated he was mainly fine although the depressive thoughts never went truly. When not then yes I would consider random people to be at risk. I witnessed violence. I even shake now thinking about it all whilst typing.
So. The op isn't unreasonable.
I Am not prejudiced but I am wary.
and I'll bet I probably have more dealing with mh than a lot of people on here.
Sympathy. Yes and chance are there is no risk but you just never ever know. Even my family couldn't believe it when it all kicked off at first.

I've worked in MH for almost 20 years.

I've been present at many MHA assessments where someone has fought the Police and tried to attack the assessing team.

Because they were ill and often thought the MHA team and the Police were trying to harm or even kill them.

Just imagine I bring the Police to your house tomorrow and tell you I'm taking you away to hospital. But you don't think anything is wrong. You KNOW these people are just out to try and harm you because YOU know the truth about a conspiracy, or they hate you or you're being persecuted. Would you meekly accept it and go? Or would you fight for your freedom or even your life?.

I've been present at MHA assessments with neighbours nosing and being spiteful because it's a naice road. Or thinking we're 'baby snatchers' from SS and throwing bricks at us on the 'less naice' estates.

With all the many acutely ill service users I've known, I can't really think of more than a few that could be a potential risk to strangers children (and the ones that may pose a risk were when I worked in forensic MH with child sex offenders, not the ones that were floridly psychotic and violent while sectioned).

'Care in the community' has failed for many people and lack of support etc has played a part but often it's because the 'community' likes the idea in abstract (oh those horrible asylums, there must be a better way) but not when those people live in their street or their community.

They want people to be helped and cared for and not in institutions but not anywhere near to where they live. It's still 'somewhere else' while patting themselves on the back that they're sympathetic and understanding.

Mentally ill people are part of normal life (despite a previous poster saying they're not). They are our parents, siblings, loved ones, friends whatever.

They are part of our communities. Let's try and believe that and be compassionate.

I honestly believe through my personal and professional experience that prejudice and social alienation increases risk. That risk would be reduced if we accepted people with severe MH problems into our communities, didn't consider them 'other' and engaged with them as human beings and not people to be feared.

As someone with a mentally unwell husband this thread makes me sick.

I had the police round once. He wasn't hurting anyone. I won't go into more details here but if someone assumed he was a potential risk to children due to one incident that no one else had any idea what it was about I would be devastated.

I know many people with severe mental illnesses, none of them have hurt a soul, except maybe themselves and so many of them try to avoid people and are no risk to children at all. No one likes being sectioned and sometimes the situation can get out of control when it happens, but that does not mean they are a risk to children or others.

I don't believe the cops would say he is a dangerous man.

So no, I wouldn't worry because I know how rare it is for people with mental illness to be a risk to the general public and I know my kids are at much more risk from many other things. I would simply be worried about the man and the family.

Assuming of course he was sectioned.

And why the fuck would your neighbour ask the police if there was anything he/she could do to help? who they fuck do they think they are? nosy people who dress it up as concern piss me off.

This whole thread pisses me off.

BTW, my husband was a 'normal' person.

You know, a person who was well educated, polite, loving and caring.

He is still all of those things.

Then the mental illness changed his life for the worst in ways some can't even begin to imagine and took a lot of his future dreams away. And now life is a daily struggle to the extent that I am amazed at his inner strength to carry on.

He was 'normal' He still is normal.

Sounds like my road where everyone knows everyone elses business. Bunch of gossips stand outside all the time sharing the latest juicy gossip. I've been called a snob because i don't speak to any of them. I keep my family and myself to ourselves. I wish others would do the same.

I've tried to RTFT but I may have missed someone else making the most salient point.

Police officers are not allowed to 'section' someone in their own home.
They can escort a person suspected of having MH issues with ambo to a place of safety for a voluntary assessment but kicking and screaming does not indicate this was the case. He can be 'sectioned' at his home by a doctor plus a SW plus a mental health professional but not by four vans of coppers and two paramedics, this takes hours to implement.

It's sad that because he doesn't like nosy people looking in his window at him plus was seen to struggle with police on one occasion so many people have assumed he has MH issues.

Furthermore as pp have said if he did have MH problems he's more danger to himself, not others, poor bloke.

Now even if he's been arrested and is violent and dangerous then I'd still bet he's more likely to hurt someone he knows or the police, rather than a neighbour's child. Unless his behaviour suggests he is paying too much attention to local children I'd try and think no more about it until something changes.

That is very true! I forgot you can't section someone in their own home.

The world's full of potentially dangerous people, some have mental health problems, others do not.

There is no possible way you can know who is who or what threat they pose your children.

You either accept this and let them out, or keep them inside. At the point when you do let them out, the dangerous people will still be there. There are no guarantee and nosing into your neighbour's business will not provide any.

HTH