To want to find out if my kids are safe (and how to do this anyway?)

[wheresthecat]

Bit of a long one but don't want to drip feed.
Up the road a little way the house was sold a few years ago and a woman moved in - has never spoken to any of us in the street, very much keeps herself to herself - this is very unusual in our street as everyone knows everyone, but it's her right.
About six months ago, her son moved in (mid twenties) spending his time between here and another house they have in the city. The only time we see them is in the middle of the night when they come back from Sainsburys - they're never out in the daytime, and the son will sometimes stand staring out of the window, and then shut the blind quickly if he sees anyone looking.

To get to the point, last night we were awoken by a huge commotion, four police vans and paramedics outside the house, the man shouting and screaming, swearing as they tried to get him into the ambulance. He was extremely violent and it took a long time for the police to fully restrain him and get him in the ambulance - we presume he was being sectioned.
One of the neighbours asked if there was anything he could do, but was told this man was extremely violent and dangerous, and to stay inside.

So, this morning, this leaves me wondering about the kids - they are just beginning to go for little walks by themselves (to the corner shop, round the corner to their friends' houses etc. Are they safe with this man around? And how would I find out - would the police be likely to give a definitive answer.
Obviously this man is ill, and I wouldn't ask his mother as I wouldn't want to (very awkward, invading privacy etc) but I would feel so much happier knowing.

No the police won't give a definitive answer. You have no right to know, the same as a neighbour of yours could not go to the police for info on you. It would be a breach of the data protection act. There are certain circumstances where information on an individual may be give but that would not apply in this case.

The OP has said he never leaves the house except in the dead of night to go to Sainsbury's (although how she knows that, goodness only knows). How is he going to present a danger to her children who are presumably/hopefully safely tucked up in bed at that time?

It's got bugger all to do with PC gone mad and more to do with being able to assess risk without hysteria. Something which the OP and some posters seem unable to do

pinkr Explain please how this is the PC Brigade gone wrong? What part? The people explaining how people suffering from mental illness aren't an increased danger to children? The people explaining that their parents were those being 'carted off'? Those just gobsmacked at the stupidity of people towards mental health?

Incidentally, there are call outs that emergency services have to respond to with a certain number of vehicles. Which when they arrive on the scene may seem excessive but it's protocol.

There were 5 police and emergency vehicles present for several hours when a neighbour died unexpectedly last year. Fuck me, I feel all retrospectively nosey worried now!

This is just daft.

The thing is you never really know who you are living next to. You can pretend that your neighbours tell you all their business but you are kidding yourself and they are likely lying.

Whenever actual pedophiles are uncovered it is often commented that they were respected members of the community. 1 in 4 women are victims of dv. Ergo 1 in 4 of you female neighbours are victims of dv.
1 in 4 people have mental illness.
how do you know who has the cannabis farm in the loft and who hasn't? You don't.
In this case op you know that this particular neighbour has a mental health problem. Unless you see the police armed to the teeth with machine guns and matrix vans then I wouldnt be more concerned than usual.

Obviously I don't know this man but he sounds like my neighbour who is now our friend. She has mental health problems which make her life incredibly challenging and she has often been sectioned in the way you describe. It IS upsetting to see but not half as distressing as it is for her, she's terrified. I don't blame you for feeling concerned but I'd just exercise the same precautions as you normally would with regards to your children.

When Dd was little we used to tell her to come to us if she noticed our neighbour was agitated as we could then keep an extra eye on her or pop over and sit with her with a cup of tea and chat which sometimes helped to calm her down.

We've learned a lot from supporting our neighbour, mainly that life with severe mental health problems can be bloody difficult and that help is not always forthcoming.

Pc gone wild because the Op is not allowed to be concerned about a possible risk to herself and her kids. Because whilst you are all trying to profess otherwise the incident described is not what happens to normal people. Because some people with and without mental health issues can be dangerous and the op first duty is to her children. Because people on this thread like to pretend they're out there dealing with people with serious issues without any concerns to their safety. Yes the neighbour may be harmless, may be more scared than the kids etc but it would be an irresponsible parent who didn't risk assess.

PC gone wild
not what happens to normal people

How unpleasant can you get?
When my mother was sectioned when I was a child we had nothing but compassion from our neighbours who thankfully weren't of the mindset shared by you and the OP.

Wheresthecat I understand why you are concerned. Not sure what you can do about it though.

Agree with pinkr

It doesn't make the OP a terrible person to wonder if this person causes a risk to her children. If she has no experience of MH issues, then she has no clue if he does or doesn't. She's just asking the question!

Some people are acting like she's said the man should be shot at dawn.

But you're not risk assessing pinkr. You and the OP are seeing someone in mental distress being forcibly removed from their home and making a leap in assuming that person is more dangerous to her children than the chatty man down the road.

That's not risk assessment. It's prejudice

She has given no evidence whatsoever that this man and his mental illness pose a day to day risk to her children.

Can I just point out that the last sentence of the op is I i can't ask his mother because that would be invading privacy, and yes I paraphased, yet your happy to invade his privacy any other way.

Just in the same way your entitled to privacy so is he!

TwinkieTwinkle I draw that conclusion from the OP's statement 'He was extremely violent and it took a long time for the police to fully restrain him'. I reiterate- whether or not the man is mentally ill is not the issue. It is the violence which is concerning.

As a CPN I sometimes (naively) forget that bigotry, intolerance and stigma towards those with mental illness is rife. My first instinctive reaction when I read the opportunity was 'christ, I hope mum has some support', not 'aargh, who will think of the children'.

Sensationalist scaremongering and wild assumptions help no one. Maybe he wasn't being sectioned. Or do we have concrete proof?

Never feel bad for worrying about your children's safety. For all the people calling you a nosey neighbour I'm sure they wouldn't even glance out the window if they heard the commotion you described lest they show an ounce of concern for people who live a stones throw from their houses. And isn't it common decency to offer a hand, "is there anything I can do" when someone has had a shock?

The police have described the guy as violent. You witnessed violent and unpredictable behaviour, I'd say keep a closer eye on your kids until you feel the situation is under control.

Mental health crises can, and do, happen to normal people.
What an ignorant, unpleasant post, pinkr
How lovely to cover up prejudice and call it 'risk assessment'
I hope if you are ever unfortunate enough to have a mental health crisis you'll be dealt with a little more compassionately. But you won't have one will you, because you're a ' normal person'.

'So four police vans and an ambulance were in attendance and your neighbour thought they might need a hand? '

That's neighbourese for 'can you tell me what's going on so I can impart this information to the rest of the street?'

I feel for the poor woman. Having had a relative who suffered from explosive episodes, I can assure you I'd hate to live near someone like you. How about you go ask the mother if she's ok, maybe do something kind for her? Just a thought.

PunkrockerGirl - well said.

What's a normal person when it's at home then?

The attitude in the first post (and sadly from a few people) is possibly the reason this household stays underground.

If you have to trot out "PC brigade gone mad" you've definitely lost the argument.

SoftSheen, it probably took time to restrain him because (a) the presence of police and paramedics was upsetting him, (b) they were simply taking time trying to calm him down and (c) they were aiming to prevent him hurting himself rather than others. I can remember seeing an incident outside my office window where a man was kicking off in the street and needed to be restrained quickly, and what happened was that a couple of police cars drew up and its occupants essentially fell on him and had him under control almost immediately: if speed is the objective, they can restrain a violent person relatively easily. The fact that they take time doesn't automatically indicate a particularly high level of violence.

In a way, I'm more concerned about the neighbour who was so desperate to know what was going on that he made an entirely spurious offer of help in a situation where there were clearly more than enough professionally trained people available to deal with the incident - and then went back to regale his neighbours with what the police said to him. That's the man I wouldn't particularly want to live near.

"the incident described is not what happens to normal people."

Shameful, pinkr. Utterly shameful.

I hope for your sake no one in your family - your own children, for example - are afflicted by such 'abnormality'.

No Icimoi I wouldn't either. I also have the feeling that people in that neighbourhood will only offer help to his mother in the hope of finding out some gossip they can then title tattle about.

All under the guise of safeguarding of course.

I'm actually quite disgusted by some of the attitudes on here. Especially those who think you should 'risk assess' people with mental illness to decide if they are a danger to child. What an assinine and nasty idea. I thought society was moving forward, not backwards, in our understanding of mental illness.

Often people with mental illness are described as dangerous by police when being sectioned. Imagine having severe delusional thoughts and being really fearful of those thoughts and then having a whole heap of people turn up and try to reason with those thoughts even though to you those thoughts are totally and utterly real! Then try to get you to go with them even though they are dressed in uniforms and you can't quite understand where they want to take you.