To think there are a lot of misconceptions about terminating a pregnancy

[fiveacres]

Obviously, about abortion, which is a contentious issue for some.

I am approaching the third due date of the pregnancy I terminated in the autumn of 2011 at 9 weeks.

I was a very pious sort once, who believed that abortions were morally wrong. i admit that freely. I still do feel that the best option is not to be in that position in the first place.

However, although I do sometimes think about it, I don't regret it. I've been pregnant twice since so it hasn't affected my fertility.

I paid privately. I did not have any counselling - I was undecided when I went for the initial appointment but I have to say it was very much 'assumed' that I wanted to terminate. The record of the abortion is not in my medical file.

You don't have to give a reason, although they did press me to have the implant, which I refused. They did do a scan, which was a bit upsetting.

It did not hurt. I was warned I would bleed a lot but I didn't. My periods came back in 6 weeks.

You are in a room with a LOT of other women after the procedure, which is upsetting.

Other than that, I felt good after having it done, relieved, happy, mainly relieved.

I do have the odd flash of guilt. I wouldn't do it again.

But, I was reading another thread and it crossed my mind a lot of people do not really seem to know what having a termination is like. My experience may be typical or it may not be, I don't know, but it would be interesting to see what the experiences of others are to try to dispel or to address some of the myths that surround this difficult but sometimes necessary issue.

Well what were you referring to when you said 'use the resources they need, which happily exist already'?

hmm let's see:

counselling:

pre-natal counselling:

abortion clinics

midwives

obstetricians

post partum and pregnancy doulas

mental health/reproductive health social workers

income support

subsidized childcare

maternity leave

friends and family

work-funded counselling & supports

subsidized housing

these are the resources in my area, your areas may vary.

it's okay yosock, we're all judgemental.

Clearly not enough resources/not the ones they need when women are still giving reasons such as:

• Wanting to carry on with her education/job/career

• Does not have the support she needs from her partner or family

• Cannot provide for a child right now

I think everyone judges to some extent. And it's fine to be very much pro life on a personal level, to have strong and even strident feelings about it. A lot of people do.

The issue comes, I think, when you (general you) start actively seeking to limit women's choices. That's when it becomes problematic.

Well then, it was an entirely redundant comment Bumbley - as even if society was 'fixed', women would still, en mass, want abortions.

bumble who knows. every woman's abortion is chosen for reasons personal to her, and who knows what all the reasons are. It's only 'not enough resources" if you want there to be no abortions at all. That's not my stance - I think abortion should be available on demand - so to me the resources available seem just fine.

I have single mother friends who chose to have their babies and made use of all the resources they could - and other friends on lower incomes, too, who chose to have multiple children. It's all about choices. What is acceptable to one woman would not be to another. And, sometimes it's just about not being pregnant - no amount of resources post-baby will help if the woman just doesn't want to be pregnant, as is her right to choose.

Still no clue about what you are doing to fix society,bumbleymummy?

bumbley I knew I could continue with my education. I knew I'd find a way to provide for the baby, and I knew I'd be fine without immediate practical support from family as I was living away from them.

It didn't take anything away from the fact that, at the time, I didn't want to be pregnant and didn't want to have a baby.

You can fix society all you like, there will still be people facing pregnancies they do not want, and to believe that these women should carry these babies to term - effectively punishing them for getting pregnant - is to see the female body as nothing more than an incubator.

flipp - but if you think the foetus' has a right to life then it's not that you're trying to 'limit women's choices', it's that you're trying to give the foetus that life.

Fei, some women would but as I said earlier, "because not all can be fixed by those things just do nothing?"

"I think abortion should be available on demand - so to me the resources available seem just fine."

You may not mean it to sound like this but it does sound a bit like you're saying "if they don't have enough with what's available now then tough - they have abortion - what else could they want?"

And again jorah: "because not all can be fixed by those things just do nothing?"

I also agree with the person upthread who said that contraception should be more reliable. Although with that there will always be a need for people to use it correctly which, quite often, they don't. More foolproof contraception perhaps?

It's not that you're trying to punish the woman - it's that you're trying not to 'punish' the foetus. You believe that they have a right to life, even if the woman does not.

"You may not mean it to sound like this but it does sound a bit like you're saying "if they don't have enough with what's available now then tough - they have abortion - what else could they want?""

I think all societies have limits on resources, A. and B, I think it's really up to the individual woman and her circumstances. I do think there are plenty of resources for women who want to have their babies, as well as for women who don't want to be pregnant. That's a good thing imo. I really don't believe a woman who wanted - REALLY wanted - her baby would have no choice but to abort here. There would be lots of options for support for her in the society. Would it be ideal? No, but it would be doable, and have friends who've done this to prove it.

I was just thinking about how strongly some of the anti-abortion posters feel about this issue and I realised for me, it's parenting that gets me worked up. Abusive parents upset me far more than abortions. The irony is some of the women I knew with multiple kids would be very judgey about abortion, but their parenting of their children was really shit - neglected, sad, kids. It's interesting. More an observation than anything.

It's a bit like gay marriage, really. If you don't approve of gay marriage, don't marry a gay person. If you don't approve of abortion, don't have one. But don't impose your personal morality on other people.

I don't know lastuser - to give one example, look at women and careers and how hard it is for women to take 'career breaks' to raise children. Raising children isn't valued enough at all. All the patronising comments about 'mummy holidays' etc. Success is often judged by how far you get in your job and people who do take time off to raise kids often don't get as far. That pressure or desire to be 'successful' often makes women delay having children - even if that means aborting 'badly timed' pregnancies. I think if the attitude/perception about what 'success' actually was could change then that would go a long way - it's not always just about what resources are needed, it's also about attitudes/how society works changing.

Sorry, I'm writing this really fast, I hope that make some kind of sense...can try to expand/clarify later

yeah that's true.

it would be interesting to see if there's ever been a study done on what effect that has on the abortion rate in women. But I think the whole career break issue is tied up in the wider issue of women in society, that we are a society in transition from a patriarchal one, etc so it's complicated

but if you think the foetus' has a right to life then it's not that you're trying to 'limit women's choices', it's that you're trying to give the foetus that life

But you cannot do so without limiting women's choices

but if you think the foetus' has a right to life then it's not that you're trying to 'limit women's choices', it's that you're trying to give the foetus that life

Actually it's both (obviously).

Because you categorically are actively (you wouldn't even just be trying; you would actively) be limiting women's choices. For the quite significant amount of time it takes to gestate and raise a child.

You can't separate the two, much as you might want to. Which is where the anti-women accusations come in.

And for the many, many, many people out there who don't see all 'lives' as equal, this is (quite rightly, since it's enshrined in law in most civilised places) untenable.

because not all can be fixed by those things just do nothing?

Here's what you can do; you can not have an abortion.

And you can stop trying to exert control over other people's lives when you have no right to. If you believe that women have no say over what should happen to the supposed life growing inside them, why do you believe you (or the government, for that matter) should have the right to tell that woman what to do with her own life?

Stop at saying that and doing very little else. If you're pro-choice why not make sure women have all the choices they can available to them to help make decisions that may go beyond abortion?

Most of us who actually work in this area do just that, when we can. But at the end of the day, we trust women to make their own choices. If a woman tells me she wants an abortion, its not my job or my place to give her another range of options. If she asks me to help her explore other options, I'll happily do so. Its my job to trust her to make her own choice on what she wants to do, and help her to do it. If she decides she doesn't want an abortion, I'll help her get support to continue the pregnancy.

Yet again, it all comes down to a womans right to choose. Women don't need to be protected from themselves and they don't need to be patronised and told there are other options. They know that.

Removing womens access to abortion doesn't do anything to help fix the problems women face, or vice versa. The societies that have open access to abortion are also generally the societies that have maternity leave and pay, and career breaks, and and a welfare system that supports women and children.
The societies that don't have abortion rights tend to be those that also don't support pregnancy/maternity rights or womens rights in general. They don't have strong welfare systems, they don't have the supports in place. They do have much higher maternal and infant death rates, and lower life expectancy, on the whole.

Think carefully about the countries that make abortion illegal, and whether you want to be a member of that grouping: Syria, Sudan, Iran, UAE, Afgahanistan, Uganda, Nicaragua, El Salvador , Congo, Columbia, Myanmar, Bangladesh.........

You talk about looking at the bigger picture, well thats it. Abortion rights are one of the hallmarks of a civilised, caring, society. They are something to be proud of. I'm spending a large part of my life trying to get the same for my country, and nothing anyone can say will make me anything but proud to do so.

Winter

I've recently had a baby born with a birth defect. I didn't find out until I was 36 weeks, had it been diagnosed at 12/20 weeks as it should have been I'd have been given the option to terminate on either occasion. As it happens after a stay in intensive care and some major surgery my baby is absolutely fine (most born with this condition die) however, if I was to fall pregnant again and find out that a second baby had the same defect I may or may not choose to terminate, I don't know, but it's my choice and I'm thankful to have it.

bummblemummy
Mrs Perfect Pants , please stop it . I was absolutely pro life until i was told that my chid would not survive without my placenta ,and i would have to watch him die painfully . Read your books ,have your opinions ,but you cannot actually ever really judge in life unless you have walked in some one else's shoes . Very glad this thread is on AIBU .It takes the stigma out of it, which is why the pro lifers are freaking about it .

Completely agree bookworm
I have mentioned a few times I've had births, still births and abortions. I don't think anyone unless they've been through it has a fuckn clue. I don't care what decision another woman may or may not make. it doesn't affect me, my dp or my children.

youbastard Is the type who gets to me most. How dare you judge my life and my decisions its none of your business, so you can jog on.