To think there are a lot of misconceptions about terminating a pregnancy

[fiveacres]

Obviously, about abortion, which is a contentious issue for some.

I am approaching the third due date of the pregnancy I terminated in the autumn of 2011 at 9 weeks.

I was a very pious sort once, who believed that abortions were morally wrong. i admit that freely. I still do feel that the best option is not to be in that position in the first place.

However, although I do sometimes think about it, I don't regret it. I've been pregnant twice since so it hasn't affected my fertility.

I paid privately. I did not have any counselling - I was undecided when I went for the initial appointment but I have to say it was very much 'assumed' that I wanted to terminate. The record of the abortion is not in my medical file.

You don't have to give a reason, although they did press me to have the implant, which I refused. They did do a scan, which was a bit upsetting.

It did not hurt. I was warned I would bleed a lot but I didn't. My periods came back in 6 weeks.

You are in a room with a LOT of other women after the procedure, which is upsetting.

Other than that, I felt good after having it done, relieved, happy, mainly relieved.

I do have the odd flash of guilt. I wouldn't do it again.

But, I was reading another thread and it crossed my mind a lot of people do not really seem to know what having a termination is like. My experience may be typical or it may not be, I don't know, but it would be interesting to see what the experiences of others are to try to dispel or to address some of the myths that surround this difficult but sometimes necessary issue.

well, it used to be that way until we as women fought for the right to be in charge of our own bodies. I'm not excited about the thought of going back to that way of life. And there's evidence that women of the time weren't thrilled about endless pregnancies either.

Thanks lastuser - she found the courage to leave him after 10 years of being together and she's now engaged to a really lovely man. She definitely made the right decision to terminate as I think her life would be very different if she'd had that third baby.

"It would imagine any relationship where a man was forcing a woman to have a baby against her will would have to be classed as abusive, no?"

Well, yes, of course. I suppose there could be a situation where a woman voluntarily went through with pregnancy even though they didn't want the child and then gave it to the father. Though I suppose that's more "being willing to go through with pregnancy but just not wanting to be a parent", which is different from "not being willing to go through with pregnancy" - a difference that isn't recognized by the "but why not just choose adoption!" anti-choice arguments, now that I think of it.

So glad to hear that your sister is in a happier place now, writer.

I'm so glad, really :)

I've commented before about abortion often being the symptom of other problems - eg abusive relationships or women feeling under pressure. I think when people focus on abortion and how it needs to be kept legal they are often brushing those underlying issues under the carpet. I've read some very interesting articles written by feminists about how men have basically convinced women that they need to turn against themselves/their own biology to 'solve the problem' when actually the 'problem' is often the result of men's influence in society. Eg, women feeling that they can't take time out of their career etc.

As someone who miscarried, my DP told me that he didn't feel the same bond or pain I did- which at the time infuriated me though now i see his point. He felt very sad for the loss of the future for it being our first pregnancy and for the trauma I went through during it but it didn't feel real to him in the same way it did to me. The men he's talked to all pretty much felt the same while that's not all men, it's quite normal for them to feel that way according to the places that helped counsel us through it. It's quite possible a man may not feel as attached to a pregnancy, especially early on, as some women can be.

I felt I had a baby inside me before I lost the second time but not with the Chemical pregnancy despite how wanted it was, I felt it wasn't at all then, and abortion doesn't upset me at all. I don't see those pregnancies as potential lives myself, so I think everyone is very different. Whether I'd chose it or not I don't know.

Abortion is an individual choice, one I hope never to have to think on myself and one I would never want forced on another.

Bumbley for me personally it's not about turning against my biology, it's about being in control of my biology.

written by "feminists"

Fixed that for you there.

I've read some of the "pro-life feminist" stuff and it just seems ... not very feminist. Fine, it would be lovely if society was arranged so it was easier for women who want children to have them, but there will still be women who just don't want to be pregnant and have children, and suggesting that the way to prevent all abortion is to "fix society so women can have more children" has a horrible ring of "women, it is your destiny to have babies". It annoys me to the same degree as "all women really want to have babies in their 20s, like nature intended, but society isn't set up for them to do so! If society was fixed, nobody would delay having children til their 30s or 40s!". I didn't want babies in my 20s. At all.

I wonder if there have been any cases where woman have gone through with the pregnancy (even though they don't want the baby themselves) and then simply handed the baby over to the father because he did want the child

I know someone who did, bullied into it by her parents not her mother. She is NC with her parents and the child was removed from her care when she ended up with severe depression and neglected her and given to the father who said he wanted it. She has been very traumatised by the experience, as was her daughter. The father was pretty useless as well so the poor kid ended up a pretty scarred adult. She has good friends but she has admitted on several occasions that she wished she wasn't born, it's terribly sad for her no matter how much she's reassured but she hates the fact her GPs forced her mother and has little relationship with her mum.

So while I'm sure it ends up well for some, it often doesn't for others. No one should be forced into having a pregnancy continue that they don't want too.

Winter, it's more about seeing that a man might have a right to have a say in what happens to a child/potential child that is half his. For example, if the woman is saying that she can't/doesn't want to raise it (note the lack of her using a bodily autonomy argument here) and the man steps up and says that he will raise the child (whether that has to be put in a legal agreement or not) .

Writerwannabe83 Your poor sister, I hope she is very well rid of that wanker.

Well leedy, that's your opinion. Some people think you can't be a feminist unless you support abortion to term but recently when I mentioned this on a thread on MN about feminism there were plenty of women saying that they didn't agree with that at all but would still call themselves feminists.

I think if we 'fixed society' many of the issues that push women towards abortion wouldn't exist.

bumbleymummy You are still saying he has the right to hijack the woman's body to do that though. She still has to endure a pregnancy that she has no control over. If you postured the question (and it was theoretically possible to transfer an embryo safely): 'Would it be fair to think men have the right to ask to continue the pregnancy if they are willing to gestate it themselves?

Then that would be a question that could mean the man has the right, however since there's no way that theory is true atm, so it's a moot point- they'd need to hijack someone elses body to keep the pregnancy going. It's like keeping someone alive or forcing someone living to donate organs when they've expressly said 'no' to donation on the grounds it may save a life. You are removing their autonomy.

bumbley, i don't see how that would work because the uterus the child gestates in is NOT half his, it belongs wholly to the woman.

My friend had a very late miscarriage you have to deliver the baby. They'd be very few people in the world that would chose that for shits and giggles. It would be done for the more dire of cases, where there's real trauma to the woman or there's real issues.

I think if we fixed contraception so that it was 100% effective that would help cut abortion down for those who had failures. I think they'd also be a need for abortion though for people to keep control.

How is that any different? IF you give him a right to have a say about whether she continues with the pregnancy, you are giving him rights to her body.
Which is exactly what I said. And can never ever be acceptable. There really is something very very wrong with arguing otherwise. If the woman has no problem with having a baby and handing it over to the father thats fine, but thats not the point you are making is it? You're talking about his right to control whether she has a baby at all. Be honest.

The other point is just more anti-choice rhetoric. You're pretending that women wouldn't need abortions if we sorted out relationship problems and better maternity leave? Its nonsense. Women need access to abortion for a million different individual reasons, they always have and they always will. Working to fix all the other problems is a great idea (perhaps you could re-focus your energy there instead of your current anti-women work?) but it won't ever negate the need for abortion.

I had an abortion because I didn't want to be a parent at that time, in that place, under those circumstances.

I thought I did; I was wrong.

and that's ok

I think so too, but the point is that foolproof contraception wouldn't have helped, better access to benefits wouldn't have helped and maternity leave wouldn't have helped. I didn't want to be pregnant.

"She still has to endure a pregnancy that she has no control over."

That's why I specifically mentioned that her reason wasn't to do with bodily autonomy. It's not that she doesn't want to be pregnant, it's that she doesn't want to/doesn't think she can raise a child at the other end of it. Yes, adoption is always an option but some people don't like the uncertainty or the idea that strangers will be raising their child. If the father is saying that he actually wants the child and wants to raise it I think it's unfair not to take his opinion into consideration.

"Working to fix all the other problems is a great idea"

Seeing as you claim to be 'pro-choice' what are you doing to help women make 'choices' that may include improving their situation so that they feel better able to keep a pregnancy that they would have felt they had to terminate because of eg. financial reasons? Perhaps you could 'refocus your energy'?

My work definitely isn't 'anti-women'.

Exactly, five. How can we fix the side issues for the women who just don't want to have a baby? There aren't any. Or the women who don't want to be tied to an unsuitable man? Fix him into a perfect mate? OR the women who are too young, or too old, or have too many children already, or who can't stand pregnancy itself, or are ill or have psychiatric problems?

Sure there are always ways to try and support those women who may not really want an abortion but feel pushed by circumstance. And to look at aspects of our society that may have knock on effects of reducing abortion rates. Thats all good. But its incredibly naive to think we can magic away all the reasons for abortion.

Good. "Fixing society" is a good idea. In the meantime, let's not force women to have babies they don't want, huh? Maybe we can reconsider when we've got society fixed. So long as we make sure that nobody- even in the Brave New World- has any control over what a woman does with her body except her.

Winter, because not all can be fixed by those things just do nothing?

*She still has to endure a pregnancy that she has no control over."

That's why I specifically mentioned that her reason wasn't to do with bodily autonomy. It's not that she doesn't want to be pregnant, it's that she doesn't want to/doesn't think she can raise a child at the other end of it. Yes, adoption is always an option but some people don't like the uncertainty or the idea that strangers will be raising their child. If the father is saying that he actually wants the child and wants to raise it I think it's unfair not to take his opinion into consideration.*

Then you're answering a completely different question to the one asked. IF the woman in your scenario has no problem being pregnant, then what has your response got to do with abortion rights at all?

Anti women is precisely what it is.