To think there are a lot of misconceptions about terminating a pregnancy

[fiveacres]

Obviously, about abortion, which is a contentious issue for some.

I am approaching the third due date of the pregnancy I terminated in the autumn of 2011 at 9 weeks.

I was a very pious sort once, who believed that abortions were morally wrong. i admit that freely. I still do feel that the best option is not to be in that position in the first place.

However, although I do sometimes think about it, I don't regret it. I've been pregnant twice since so it hasn't affected my fertility.

I paid privately. I did not have any counselling - I was undecided when I went for the initial appointment but I have to say it was very much 'assumed' that I wanted to terminate. The record of the abortion is not in my medical file.

You don't have to give a reason, although they did press me to have the implant, which I refused. They did do a scan, which was a bit upsetting.

It did not hurt. I was warned I would bleed a lot but I didn't. My periods came back in 6 weeks.

You are in a room with a LOT of other women after the procedure, which is upsetting.

Other than that, I felt good after having it done, relieved, happy, mainly relieved.

I do have the odd flash of guilt. I wouldn't do it again.

But, I was reading another thread and it crossed my mind a lot of people do not really seem to know what having a termination is like. My experience may be typical or it may not be, I don't know, but it would be interesting to see what the experiences of others are to try to dispel or to address some of the myths that surround this difficult but sometimes necessary issue.

one thing I genuinely cannot get my head around is that anti-abortion/pro-life people get very het up about abortion.

They pour hours in on line debate, rl debate, rl action yet they don't put all that effort into actually helping the struggling women who sometimes have to make that decision to terminate. Or the unwanted children who are born and who, as bertrand says, often have very miserable childhoods. Sometimes their lives improve, sometimes they are damaged for life. Some go on to damage others.

It seems so inconsistent to pour effort into protecting the unborn baby, but not when it arrives. THAT's when help is really needed.

Not read all the posts but with regard to late term abortions, Df gave birth to her little boy at 22 weeks, she was told he would die, when he didn't die she was told he would be blind and deaf, when it became clear he was neither blind or deaf she was told he would not be able to walk, have brain damage and to not feed him as his life was not going to be worth living. Df and her dh refused preferring to give him a chance. The last time I saw him he was running around laughing and joking with my ds. Certainly not brain damaged, blind deaf or disabled.

Meerka- it's like the American Right. Pro death penalty, anti Medicare, anti gun control and anti abortion. Only pro life as long as it's in utero.

*Winter, you don't have to terminate to end a pregnancy at that point. Not currently allowed either but if you are asking for a change to give women more control over their own bodies why specifically support termination?

Your uterus may not be other people's concern but what's inside your uterus is a distinct human entity that does seem to require other people's concern.*

Because its only if the contents comes out of my uterus alive that it is a distinct human entity. You want it to be that I have no choice about whether I produce a human person or I don't, because you want to force me to have a live birth rather than a termination of pregnancy. When it outside my uterus it can be your concern, when its inside its not, is the point. You can't simply say then ok: I'll decide that you have to expel it alive so that I can decide about it.
You want it to be your choice about whether I become a mother. I want it to be mine. Surely you can understand that?

Oliver, then your friend was very very lucky, and beat all the odds. That makes no difference at all to the question at hand.

Oliver- I thought there were only a couple of 22 weekers growing up in the world without significant disability- your friend is spectacularly lucky. And so are you to know them!

I had two abortions in my early twenties.

The first I took a pill then 24 hours later another and it was horrific. I got the bus home afterwards and had to sit on the pavement at the bus stop as I felt so bad. there was blood running down my legs, not like a river but you could see it. I finally made it home and what happened afterwards was the worst day and night of my life. There were bits coming out of me into the toilet.

Second abortion I was put under for.

Both horrific for me but I buried what I had done as much as I could.

I went on to marry the father of those two babies and we had three children. It wasn't until I held them that I realised the enormity of what I had done and the guilt was overwhelming.

I never had any counselling but should have looking back.

Bert, it has been explained to you several times why we're discussing them.

"they don't put all that effort into actually helping the struggling women who sometimes have to make that decision to terminate"

Some people do both.

"its only if the contents comes out of my uterus alive that it is a distinct human entity"

No, it's already a distinct human entity.

Who said you had to be a mother?

"Bert, it has been explained to you several times why we're discussing them"

No. You have explained why you want to discuss them. I find it ...interesting...that any thread about abortion you join ends up being about the tiny % of late terminations. One would almost suspect you of doing it on purpose.
At least you haven't posted any pictures on this one.

Some people do both

it isnt good enough though. You tell someone to have the baby on moral grounds, then there is an argument you are morally partially responsible for that baby. A baby has been born because of your intervention.

You could argue it's morally bankrupt to presume to have an opinion unless you are willing to put your money, time and effort where you mouth is. Why waste time on the internet when you could be out there making a genuine difference to the lives that you claim to care about?

Now if someone is anti-abortion and has the courage and commitment to actually provide a home to the unwanted baby, that is worthy of some respect. I've known of two people who have done that. There's a difficult discusson around the adoption, mind you. But at least those people went out there and did something.

There is no lack of people keen to start a family by adopting a healthy young baby. Meerka you are right that it would be wrong to offer an opinion without being prepared to offer support/money/time which is why many anti-abortion agencies do provide support and even finance to people who change their mind. However, necessarily this has to operate separately to any campaigning so you might not know the two are linked.

As for a baby not being a baby before it is born, I suggest you don't have that discussion with anyone who has had a stillbirth!

And you can guarantee, can you, that my induced at 25 weeks very possibly disabled baby will be swiftly adopted while in paediatric intensive care into a loving and supportive family that will look after him forever?

Thought not.

I'm aware of some of the issues around adoption. It#s a very very knotty issue.

No, I wasn't aware of the practical help and involvement in child-rearing by the anti-abortion movement. Is it considerable? Has anyone here had experience of some of the people who have been critical about their terminations, offering to actually help?

I think most of all I dislike a lot of the dishonesty and emotionalism of both sides of the discussion, especially but not only on the anti-side.

The 24 week thing is academic.

The majority of abortions, as has been said, are not performed after 12 weeks, when certainly the foetus can't survive without the host.

90% before 12 weeks.90%

Are performed, that should have said!

exactly.

in better news, PEI has eased access to abortion for women there:

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/p-e-i-eases-access-to-abortion-1.3096669

Yay!

Bert, as explained to you on this thread (and several times on the other thread) people on abortion threads often say that they support abortion to term for any reason/that the law should be changed. That is why the conversation about later term abortions tends to come up.

Meerka, and I suppose all the people here suggesting that abortion should be available to term are going to carry those abortions out themselves and provide any necessary counselling services? The point was that Pro-lifers don't help women after they give birth and actually, they do. Why do you assume that I don't help people?

Bert - so you're putting the value of a life on whether or not it is wanted? Because a child might have a disability it is better for it not to be born at all? Lovely.

Meerka - here is one of the charities Life Charity Providing support, housing and training opportunities.

So, the limit could be reduced to 12 weeks in the UK? (with the current exceptions for medical reasons which are allowed to term anyway)

bil you're not suggesting that there are sufficient appropriate adopters in the UK for every abortion are you?

Noneed I just wanted to acknowledge your post and say how sorry I was to read of your experiences . It's never too late for counselling, if you feel it would be helpful.

last thanks for that link - and how interesting to read the comments underneath. Refreshingly free of the emotional rhetoric you might expect to see.

"Bert - so you're putting the value of a life on whether or not it is wanted? Because a child might have a disability it is better for it not to be born at all? Lovely."

Yes, in many cases that is true. And my point about guaranteeing a happy life for my 24 weeker was based on your insistence that women who want later terminations should be induced "to give the foetus a chance". I would want to know what sort of chance you had in mind.

yes it can be true sometimes that it's better for someone with very severe disabilities not to be born. Some people can be born with severe learning difficulties and with permanent severe pain. Other people can have a good quality of life at first when people who love them are around. But the last few decades of their life can be heartbreakingly miserable when the people who love them are deceased and if they are in some of the less-than-stellar homes.

It can also be better for a foetus with fatal abnormalities not to be born. But bumbley thinks that should happen, in all cases. Indeed she was insistent on this point to a MNer who was undergoing that traumatic ordeal (much to the distress of the MNer in question).

A chance at living that they wouldn't get if they were aborted? Have you ever read any of the abortion survivor stories?

Meerka, the suggestion here is that we make that decision before they are born though - that because they are premature they will have such severe disabilities that their lives are not worthwhile.

I wonder why you think we should show such 'compassion' for the foetus when we don't extend that thinking to born babies/children and euthanise them.

That is a lie George. She was not 'distressed'.She engaged with me on a thread and knew my opinions. She is a grown woman if she found it 'disturbing' she could hide the thread. I did not post my opinions on some sort of dedicated support thread for her. I would not do that.