AIBU to ask people to use 020 as the dialling code for London ?

[NetworkGuy]

A long while back, the code was 01, then (in preparation for expanding the number space,) Oftel split the 01 code to be 071 and 081, later on, large cities had an extra '1' inserted, so Birmingham became 0121, and London numbers 0171 (inner) and 0181 (outer).

Later on still, there was the introduction of completely new ranges of numbers such as 023, 024, 028 (NI), 029 (Wales, currently only in use in Cardiff) and for London, 020

That's 020 not 0207, 0208 (and even London's Evening Standard paper had it wrong when proclaiming "0203 is a new code for London").

Incidentally there are also 020 0xxx xxxx numbers (used for call centres and normally unknown, but reached via 0800, 0845, 0870, 03xxx dialling codes for businesses).

*So the actual range of numbers for London is currently:

020 0xxx xxxx
020 3xxx xxxx
020 7xxx xxxx
020 8xxx xxxx*

Initially the 7xxx and 8xxx series were still the "inner" and "outer" London areas, but later on, once the "7" and "8" were in place, it meant that 020 7123 and 020 8123 could be used, and be in completely random areas of Greater London (and while BT exchanges covered only small areas, the numbers from cable firms like Virgin Media can be spread over several miles as there's not the same geographic constraints).

Why am I bothered, you may ask?

Well, the original reason for splitting the dialling "area" code from the "local" part of the number was because anyone in the area can dial without needing to add the "area" code. So in London, you can dial a local number just dialling the last 8 digits (unless it is 020 0xxx xxxx - these are defined as "National dialling" only).

I'm bothered because it is really easy to show the number the correct way, and a matter of laziness and error (brought about by poor example in the media) which has led to most Londoners being unable to show their number in the correct form. When there's some problem overseas, the error is further promoted because the Foreign Office number shown on news broadcasts (020 7xxx xxxx) is shown as 0207 xxx xxxx so no wonder few people seem capable of getting it correct. I'm not saying they are "thick", just misinformed!

Few other places have this problem, though for a while, when some other numbers (Bristol and Reading, I think) were changed to 011x xxx xxxx there were examples with spurious digits in the wrong place (making the number, if dialled, either be unavailable, or a wrong number). That was down to residents just not following the examples (because Leicester, Sheffield, Nottingham and Leeds were not affected the same way).

I understand that when the '3' series runs out, there will be '6'xxx numbers, all still using the 020 area code. Only people outside need to dial 020, or, of course, someone using a mobile phone. I believe the media are responsible for confusing the public, mostly by showing numbers as 0207 or 0208 when the "gap" should have been present. TV news and adverts have continued to show the wrong form of number (ie they show 0207 xxx etc, not 020 7xxx) and what just "did it" for me was seeing a business (which is associated with Mumsnet users trialling its service) showing 0203 xxx xxxx as their help line number.

I know many people use mobile phones, so there's no "space" shown if you see a number displayed, but given there is a standard laid down, it makes most sense if everyone follows it.

Finally, some time back I did get DCMS (which is responsible for Media) to correct their Press Releases (to show 020 xxxx xxxx rather than the wrong form of number).

After all, if a Government department most closely connected with the perpetrators of misinformation are themselves "getting it wrong" then what hope that the advertising and media firms follow their bad habits, taking their (bad) example ?

(If not your passion )

OrangeVase - yes, you're quite correct, that London exchanges were based on names of the different suburbs.

In fact, so were the national codes, to a large extent (012xx numbers are often for the B's and C's right up to Wrexham and other W's with 019xx numbers).

and for those thinking I should get out more... no i don't know these codes off by heart. I did spend time in the late 70s on software to bill for calls being made to different national and international destinations, and have followed telecomms for a good chunk of my IT career.

As stated earlier, do I get out daily (but 44 kg still to lose).

YANBU, it annoys me too

Blimey, who cares? You do of course Op.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

The "local part" can be 8, 7, 6 or even 5 digits, often with the 8 shown as 4 4 and the 7 shown as 3 4

The 4 3 4 codes apply only in some cities

0121, 0131, 0141, 0151, 0161, 0191 (from the original 021, 031...)
Birmingham, Edinburg, Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester, + Tyneside
(Durham, Sunderland and Newcastle share 0191 but not all calls are 'local')

0113, 0114, 0115, 0116, 0117, 0118 (a new group when '1' inserted)
Leeds, Sheffield, Nottingham, Leicester, Bristol, Reading

In NI, all the codes went over to 028 xxxx xxxx

I expect in many areas (as in another poster's Cardiff example) people may still show numbers as 028xx yyyyyy (because previously they'd have been 01xxx yyyyyy and because initially caller display didn't show the number properly for 02x codes).

YANBU.

And I really, really hate it when I say a number as something like 020 8765 4321 and the other person says (really pointedly, like they are correcting me) 'do you mean 0208 765 4321?'

No, no I really don't.

Well. That's a minute or so of my life I'll never get back.....

YABU for using AIBU. Pedants Corner methinks

Oooops - Edinburgh - before someone gets miffed.

TSOMD - I only came onto MN years ago because there was an 020 topic in PC :)

Just that several years on, the wrong number format is still in common use...

If I had managed to sell 020homes.com for 50K in 2010, some advertising firms might have started to get 020 shown properly !

I'm at a loss to comment whether or not YABU. I'll have a and ponder it.

Yawn.

This drives me mad too so no YANBU but I am agog at how much you managed to write on the subject. The last three-quarters of your post could have proposed a full-scale cull of all kittens for all I know.

Yanbu. I have an 020 3xxx xxxx number. When giving my number to a LONDON based person/company etc I miss off the 020 because, you know, one doesn't need to dual the national London code within London. Almost 100% then ask is it 0207 or 0208 and really don't get it when I say neither. It's not fucking rocket science.

*dial not dual. Though....

Government tend to use the 0207 xxx xxxx format because of the Government Telephone Network. It's cheaper to dial between departments using this, and the format is generally xxx xxxx in London, matching the last 7 digits of the phone number.

The GTN saves taxpayers money; it's understandable that many civil servants will group their phone number to make it easier to identify the GTN number.

Here's the thing overall though: it's a convention. I'm all for purposeful pedantry, but if the convention on this is changing, I struggle to see the harm when the convention itself is only a few decades old.

It would be interesting to see if there's any research on how people best process and remember numbers. I know for example that my mother really struggles with multiple groups of 4.

Yes, you are being unreasonable to ask, since you ask.

YANBU. It irritates me too, especially when I give my number as, say, 020 8123 1234 and the person repeats and "corrects" it as they write it down to "0208 ---" Because what tends to happen then is that in practice they say "0208 8123 1234" and I have to go through it all again.

It's not fucking rocket science. - Biscetti

I'll be happy to quote you on that :)

JassyRadlett "the format is generally xxx xxxx in London, matching the last 7 digits of the phone number"

NO IT ISN'T - and has not been since 020 was first introduced

The whole idea of where the first space should be is to split the Area code from the Local number and for London it is 020

If the GTN is out of step with the way the London area code is meant to be shown, then the GTN staff who have not reprogrammed their switches are part of the problem. 7xxx xxxx is the local number and should be the way anyone dials these extensions (and whether the call goes internally via GTN switches should be determined from the digits dialled).

Interesting Quora piece on the development of phone numbers in the US. Apparently they found that when chunking, a 3/4 system worked better and if there was a group of 4 it was better at the end. And people appear to pull area codes from a different compartment in their memories.

I can see that some understood the number change, while a minority seem to still be confused (and apparently, the GTN may also be part of the problem, not just the media)

Ahh, for the heady days of only having to dial 4 digits to talk to my friends in the village...

YANBU, but probably thinking about it more than most people do, since I very, very rarely dial a number these days (click through the website on my mobile), and don't even remember the last time I used the house phone

Can someone please explain in basic terms what the problem is? Is it that say for example my phone number is 0207 123 1234 that I should have actually said it as '7 123 1234' or what?

I only meant that the GTN format is xxx xxxx. It's a private telephone network run by C&W.

The numbers for buildings outside London often have different extensions as the first part of the number than their local dialling numbers.

It's natural consumer behaviour that when two numbers have extreme similarities, people tend to recall them consistently.

But don't let me get in the way of rudeness or a rant by suggesting there may be reasonable explanations for the way people behave.

ChunkyPickle - like you, I make few calls from the house phones.

I'm working on a business venture which will be aimed at consumers. Among other things, to provide valid phone numbers, and hopefully buy me a small island in the sun...

Those firms insisting on 0845/ 0870/ etc numbers will not be listed.

There will be automated correction to the 020 format for London numbers :)