Fallen out with MIL over manners

[WoeIsMee]

I'm really annoyed. I've NC for this.

My MIL had my children today and they've come back saying 'what' instead of 'pardon.' This is because mil told them that 'what' is correct which is clearly wrong - it's 'pardon.'

I'm really annoyed as correct manners are so important, also it's undermined me.

WIBU to ring her and tell her she's wrong and ask her to tell the children that she was wrong?

Is it time for the Big Reveal yet? Bored now.

Big Reveal ?

Katie Hopkins?

and let's not get onto the split infinitive!

I'm not even vaguely bored with this thread. I love it. I'm waiting to hear what the OP says next.

I, like others, am fairly certain it is a wind up, it must be. Especially the 'I' and 'me' bit.

Just in case OP is being remotely serious this explains the "and I" business.

I recently corrected Kim Kardashian's use of "I" and "me" on Instagram; I was sick of seeing her post "pictures of Kanye and I at the blah blah blah". I wouldn't not have said a word if she'd been saying "here's a picture of Kanye and me at the blah". Get it?

What and pardon can both be rude and uncouth, it depends on tone. I was drilled to say, "excuse me, could you repeat yourself please" by a dragon-lady teacher when I was 6. That was frickin stupid too.

Well OP, your wind-up has well and truly flushed out the snobs!

I am appalled at the level of snobbery and pretentiousness of some. Good grammar and language is something I would always encourage but judging others and saying how appalled you would be if your children used the word "pardon" makes you sound dreadful. I have visions of lots of you out there trying terribly hard to speak in the right way to seem posher than you are

Is it also dreadful to judge people as rude for saying "what"?

God how deluded is Woe?

This reminds me of the epic 'another think coming' thread.

I agreed with Maryz comment about people trying to use words that make them sound posh. The steadfast commitment to using Mrs Jones and I in all occasions, the godawful linguistic PLAGUE that is the whole MYSELF/ME or YOURSELF/YOU habit.

Good one, Woe.

But not fair to the thread, switching it from class-based opinions on language to flat-out no-shades-of-grey grammar, and then setting it up with a clearly idiotic statement to get a rise. Turns it from a halfway interesting discussion to one that can be solved with a grammar primer.

Ooooh! Split Infinitives! Now, there's a debate....

Oh, and assuming people are snobs and judging others because of differences in speech is unfair. I don't judge people who say, for instance, toilet. I use loo because that's what my family said, I think toilet is ugly and I don't use it. If you want to say toilet it's as OK as my saying loo.

I have visions of lots of you out there trying terribly hard to speak in the right way to seem posher than you are I know. Very cringeworthy. No decent person would let their cringe show, though!

Gilrack 'You wouldn't say "he gave it to I" or "he looked at I"...'

Well, probably not. But when my dad was a young teacher, sent of to a rural school, he was briefly baffled by a child saying at lunchtime 'Us'll need ter gang and get wur sausages fer all of we.'

'sent off', even.

I write for a living so grammar is important to me.

When to use 'and I' versus 'and me' is very simple.

If it is the subject of the sentence it is "I", if it is the object it is "me".

My husband and I went out to dinner. The waiter served me and my husband.

On the "what"/"pardon" thing in my family we always say "what." That is because it is how I was brought up (U versus non-U). However I don't give a toss what word other people use ....

That's only simple if you have a clue what the subject and object mean, though, Merguez. I've tried that explanation on various of my family and got some very blank looks.

Mind you, my old school would have preferred you to cast your mind briefly back to your Latin declensions and work it out from there. ('All together now gels: Nominative, Vocative, Accusative, Dative...')

Am common as muck, by the way, just Grammatically Educated.

KittiesInsane For the people who don't understand subject and object, just tell them to take the other person out of the sentence, and they will (hopefully) automatically know when to say "I" and "me". Then tell them it's the same when the other person is in the sentence.

Just think what you would say if another person wasn't involved eg I went to dinner. The waiter served me.
Then add the other person (My husband and )I went ...
The waiter served (my husband and) me.

Cross post

Fair comment, Kitties, if not within this thread's already strange remit I grew up in the land of "Am yow coming with we?" ... Which, incomprehensibly, is also a land of rigid adherence to correct written grammar.

Best to avoid 'subject' and 'object' unless you're willing to extend your lecture to indirect objects, reflexives and possessives. It's not actually necessary to know all that, we have easier rules as well.

Kitties I am ancient and it pains me that they don't teach proper grammar in school any more.

Don't worry, I do know how to tell the difference without resorting to subjects and objects, and indeed had to explain it to DD's year 6 teacher that way (quietly. Just before the SPAG tests).

Gilrack - Yorks/Lancs border moorland by any chance? Or do lots of regions of the country reverse things like that?