Fallen out with MIL over manners

[WoeIsMee]

I'm really annoyed. I've NC for this.

My MIL had my children today and they've come back saying 'what' instead of 'pardon.' This is because mil told them that 'what' is correct which is clearly wrong - it's 'pardon.'

I'm really annoyed as correct manners are so important, also it's undermined me.

WIBU to ring her and tell her she's wrong and ask her to tell the children that she was wrong?

Oh yeah

GIL then. She's just altered it so she's less identifiable.

Woe are you Kate?

I took a social etiquette class at school and we were taught never to say 'pardon'. It's naff apparently - so is 'toilet' and 'serviette'.

This has reminded me how my in laws, convinced that reading the Daily Mail and owning a 3 bed semi makes them mc, scoff at my family for not being mc enough and have made comments about my nieces having common names etc. however, MIL insists on nana, and my family would never think that anything other than Grandma or Granny was acceptable.

MIL has a front room, my parents have a lounge. But both sides say pardon, although my mum would probably have been hit with a ruler by the nuns at boarding school if she said that as a child.

Taking a social etiquette class is pretty naff too

kickassangel's two families are a classic example of how the various levels of the middle classes reserve their highest levels of scorn for those just above and just below them!

what many people fail to realise is that 'etiquette' is there to make sure that everyone feels as comfortable as possible. It is not there to show off your higher being.
For example , if your guest tips his tea into the saucer and starts drinking from it, then the 'correct' thing to do would be to do the same.
words that you choose to use are not 'etiquette' btw.

I still don't get why anyone would deliberately teach children to say 'pardon' thus artificially labelling them lower class. This seems no problem for the enlightened people of MN, but RL can be unforgiving.

Reni because you say it, your parents say it, the neighbours say it - it's no different than anything else parents pass on to their dcs.

Because it's their "normal".

Are you usually so dense or only in matters of snobbery?

I am neither dense nor a snob, funnyossity. Was it your intention to be so rude?

I disagree with your definition, SunnyBaudelaire, though I agree with your intention. To my mind, 'etiquette' was put in place to divide people while I would call the lovely example you give as being manners.

I (still) agree. Etiquette is just an agreed-upon thing that has become the norm , provided you've been educated about it by knowing those people who practise it.

I still don't get why anyone would deliberately teach children to say 'pardon'

Because in many parts of the UK it is the polite thing to say.

It is unlikely that you will be able to conceal your 'lower class' or even 'middle class' origins until you say 'pardon'. On the other hand by carefully saying 'what' you have a high chance of appearing rude to some people and a bit deranged to others.

Agree with the difference between etiquette and manners. Someone with good manners would never knowingly make another feel uncomfortable. Rude people are rude no matter what 'class' they come from.
Back to the what/pardon business. In the staffroom from hell I used to work in, this woman used to take me to task for saying 'what' not 'pardon'. I didn't argue with her. It was real aggressive shit.

reni - because where we live, there isn't a single person who won't think they are rude and badly brought up if they say "what". Also because until this thread I had no idea that "what" is posh, or indeed polite. Because "pardon" is what I was taught to say.

Don't get me wrong, I do not personally flinch at 'pardon'. English is not my first language, I learned 'what' at school and only realized how pardon is perceived by many people in the UK after a few years. This kind of snobbery is unfortunate, but a fact of life. If it is completely normal to say pardon where you live, you won't face the same prejudices.

Reni, I grew up in middle class south west London and went to a private school. Most people say sorry, excuse me or pardon, and a very large proportion of people were born in another part of the world or UK and say what they were brought up to say, which is statistically unlikely to be 'what'.

You really have to be moving in quite rarified circles for 'what' to be polite. (Although to be fair most teenagers are happy with 'Wah?'.)

Posh or not, I don't think the queen would be happy if a common or garden servant/nurse/said 'what?' Because they hadn't heard her.

The number of people who know or care about 'what' being the correct etiquette is much smaller than the number of people who think it is rude. (Leaving aside children on the school bus).

So OP have you confronted MIL? If so, how did that go?

Not RTFT.

But I quote the great Jilly Cooper - Pardon is a much worse word than fuck..

Thinking about this, a rather abrupt "What?" makes it sound like the speaker is at fault for not making themselves heard.
"Pardon" or "Sorry?" sounds like the listener is apologising for asking them to repeat themselves, having not heard them properly.
Regardless of class issues this would seem more polite.
In practice I think I tend to say "Sorry" with an inquiring look.

I think the number of people using "What?" is rather small.
I have mixed with people from a variety of backgrounds and have heard it only rarely.

I judge anybody saying 'what' as very rude.

.. sorry posted too soon.

Until I came on mn I didn't even know that 'what' / 'pardon' was a thing. I was brought up saying pardon. I used to think that it was like not saying please or thank you

But now... meh. (though I do judge people who don't say please and thank you!)

Of course we do. Because it is a word that is not rude so why not

I quote the great Jilly Cooper...

What's great about Jilly Cooper?