Fallen out with MIL over manners

[WoeIsMee]

I'm really annoyed. I've NC for this.

My MIL had my children today and they've come back saying 'what' instead of 'pardon.' This is because mil told them that 'what' is correct which is clearly wrong - it's 'pardon.'

I'm really annoyed as correct manners are so important, also it's undermined me.

WIBU to ring her and tell her she's wrong and ask her to tell the children that she was wrong?

ThumbwitchesAbroad why is insisting doggedly that "pardon" is correct (a la OP) any less rude than insisting "what?" is correct?

Can only posh/middle class people be rude?

I'm not insisting it's "correct", I'm saying that many people were taught to use it - but I'm not the one calling people vulgar, common, awful etc. That would be all the ones saying that "pardon is wrong, what is correct".

Sorry, not all the people - some of the people etc. etc.

FFS. "ones", not people. For clarity.

I only say 'pardon me' if I burp or fart and "I'm sorry, what did you say?" if I haven't heard someone clearly. I do think a plain "what?" can sound a bit too abrupt at times.

What did your dh say? Out of interest what does he usually say?

I really wouldn't waste your time challenging her, they are just different styles and your dc will soon learn which to say in which contexts. They will probably use your style as a default unless their friends at school/ uni move in different circles.

Had to restrain dh from storming in when the dc were told off at school for saying loo instead of toilet. The dc are now bilingual - they even know which houses to say supper in and which to say tea. helps when trying to map the social classes of their classmates!

According to that what-do-you-call-the-meal thing, I'm solidily lower-middle/middle-middle. I call it dinner and eat at 7pm! :) However, I was also taught that "dinner" was the term for the main meal of the day, and that it most usually occurs at supper-time, but occasionally at lunch-time. In the latter case (like Christmas, often), we would have dinner in the middle of the day and then supper later. (disclaimer: American, so probably doesn't map onto anything here).

My 92 year old dad calls 'the place of easement' the 'cludgie'. He says 'Eh?' or 'Whit?' I'm Scottish not English and would rather die than say pardon or toilet.

If you normally only use the term "dinner" for rather more formal evening meals, and call your informal, family evening meal "supper" (pronounced "suppah"), you are probably upper-middle or upper class. The timing of these meals tends to be more flexible, but a family "supper" is generally eaten at around half past seven, while a "dinner" would usually be later, from half past eight onwards

I'm shocked that anyone does anything other than this Oh the poverty & deprivation all around me on this thread

But Kate Fox's book is brilliant. Well worth a read, even if you still wrongly say "Pardon."

Ha! 'Going through the looking glass' indeed... I think you ought to get out your writing paper, OP, and escalate this to the Telegraph letters page.

OP, do your children call your MIL Nanna or Nan? That's pretty bad too.
(Hopes to add fuel to flame)

Did you speak to your DH?

Don't phone you mil. Even if you were correct it would be very rude to call and complain.

On another note, why do people say 'say again'? Surely it needs an 'it', it's not correct English and doesn't even sound correct.

This thread is brilliantly bonkers!
It does remind me of an interview with Trinny or Susannah years ago where one of them was talking about a nanny or teacher who came from a lower class and tried to correct them from saying 'what' to saying 'pardon'.
Knowing this was terribly un-U, but also not wanting to go against her rules, she changed all 'whats' to 'pardons' - 'Pardon is the time?' 'Pardon are we having for lunch?', until the teacher realised the error of her ways...

Let me spell it out for you. If you say "pardon", anyone from upper-middle class upwards will snigger. Not fair, but true. Pardon is lower-middle class. I would correct pardon too.

I'm not remotely posh btw - but have hung out with enough upper-middle class people for it to have rubbed off

pseudonymity my mum says 'say again' and I HATE it. Pardon is preferable!

They would snigger? How unpleasant.

I say, "What was that, sorry?". I only use 'pardon' on the kids to mean, "I dare you to say that again."

Who actually cares about this shit anyway? There's no definitive answer.

I don't give a flying fig for words that are 'correct' because they're 'posh.' Asking a blunt question ie 'What?' is slightly rude IMO. 'Pardon' might be incorrect but the intention is obviously to politely request that the speaker repeat him/herself. Snobbish people laughing at how 'pardon' is wannabe middle-class/posh can take a running jump! Honestly!

I tend to say 'Sorry?' - which is an abbreviation for 'I'm sorry I didn't catch that could you repeat it please?'

And while we're on the subject I think it's slightly rude to say, 'Excuse me' when you need to get past someone in your way because you're issuing an order. --same with people ordering me to 'Enjoy' my food - I know it's extremely pedantic but it's such a poor excuse for 'I hope you enjoy your food,' IMO. So 'Excuse me please' is the 'correct' phrase to use IMO.

IME very 'posh' people are often quite rude - generalising hugely, but it's the way they just don't care at all what other people think of them. They don't need to care because they have enough money to not need the approval of 'lower' class people and know etiquette. Etiquette shmetiquette!

A pleasant tone of voice and please and thank you are the important things.

Napkins/serviettes? It's a piece of kitchen roll in this household usually.

OP - don't take this up with your MIL - if you feel the need, explain to your DC that different people use different expressions so when with Granny use 'What' to please her, but you think 'Pardon' is nicer; that will be a very good lesson in manners and diplomacy.

"Snobbish people laughing at how 'pardon' is wannabe middle-class/posh can take a running jump! Honestly!"

God I know. How small.

It's horrible. Why would anyone aspire to talk like snobbish people?

I'm not aspiring or sneering- I just don't want the OP to make herself look like a prat!

Wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular.

Excellent advice to say what other people like when at their home.