To cut of ties with brother for Islamophobic Views?

[Jacobsmum1972]

My brother had become increasingly hateful towards Muslims. His fb feed has been full of British Firsts articles to do with Rotherham and other bad stories linked towards the Islamic community.

He never used to be islamophobic, but really since a year ago he has gotten worse and worse. Which makes me believe groups like Isis and stories like Rotherham are fuelling his hatred.

He is about 10 years younger than me, so is in the islamophobic generation (press name). People who were teens during 9/11 and have had all their adolescent and young adult lives in a climate of fear.

This is not an excuse and obviously not all of he's generation are islamophobic.

I can no longer listen to his lies and hatred. I don't know what to do, I don't want to cause a massive row with my moter and have family tension.

I am not exactly worried that keeping a relationship with my brother will influence my dc beliefs about Muslims as they have been taught what is right and what Is wrong and that not all Muslims are bad etc. Although ds is very worried about me being killed in a terror attack.

What would you do.

It is absolutely misguided to tar a whole group of people with the same brush as small groups of extremists. We didn't blame all Christians for the IRA bombings did we? Surely people can see that it's wrong to blame the whole of the Muslim people for the ISIS atrocities? There are many peaceful devout and liberal Muslims throughout the world.

Prejudice is always wrong whether against colour or religion, we need to judge people by their own actions, and not by those of a small proprtion of a large amorphous mass.
By this token the OP is quite right to be upset with her brother's prejudice. I would feel the same. He is acting in a very ignorant way.

It is not racist or phobic to criticism a religion, any religion. I'm not religious and have deep misgivings about all of the established religions, if I am being honest.

Islam is not currently in a forward thinking, progressive stage. It is a much newer religion than Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism and all must evolve with the times in which we live if they are to survive.

That doesn't mean all Muslims are not forward thinking or progressive. A lot of the issues with regard to that are down the cultural differences within the people who identify as being Muslim. A Muslim from Pakistan will not necessarily practice Islam in the same way a Muslim from Jordan will.

FGM is a cultural Islamic issue rather than a religious Islamic issue, for example. Not all Muslims practice FGM, people from particular areas/countries practice it and happen to be Muslim.

It is dangerous to uphold a religion as being beyond criticism. It is also dangerous to lose sight of the fact that an individual who follows that religion is just that, an individual.

Morning Slaggy you're confusing religion with race. That's two different things there.

If you're 'genuinely curious' Slaggy you might do well to research the difference between being born and being religious. Or watch 'Life of Brian' - much more fun.

"But criticism of religion isn't racism. A person chooses to follow a particular faith or not."

Well unfortunately that's not the case for many people, especially for many "muslims" who dont have a workable choice.

I agree that muslims seem to be the new blacks/jews/ irish. I have issues with some aspects of islam and i'm not sure what i think anymore but this blanket creeping hatred is worrying.

bambambini intimidation, in my country which is liberal is more reason to criticise not less.

People must be allowed to practise what religion they please. Just because that isn't always the case does not change that basic principle.

And the new Jews are Gypsies imo, it's amazing those about a small scale racist incident at my dd's primary school are the same ones in some cases saying all sorts as soon as the gypsies come to town.

If people do not have a workable choice to not practice a religion (and are essentially forced into it), then that is even more reason to criticise it.

I think people are scared because islam just seems to be marching on, wanting to convert and becoming more extreme with hardline views. Many of the younger muslims and those growing up in western first world countries seem to be choosing to practice the more hardline form of islam that many of their parents had realxed. I have secular turkish and malaysian friends who are worried and upset that their countries look like they might be trying to go down this more hardline islamic path. I used to travel years ago way before 9/11 to muslim countries, have muslim friends who choose a more western way. Islam hardly registered, didnt feel threatening. Things have changed.

bambambini intimidation, in my country which is liberal is more reason to criticise not less.

"People must be allowed to practise what religion they please. Just because that isn't always the case does not change that basic principle."

Tobysmum - not sure what your point is there, i dont disagree.

And jews dont want people to convert really. They are often not really truly accepted.

YABVU

What a horrible post Limited!

I reckon you should just say you don't want him spouting off his repulsive views around you and/or in front of your children OP. Cutting him off is a bit strong, what with him being family and all. I've a brother like that, he used to start ranting usually round my mum's at holidays and such like. He'd do it all the more around me as he knew I disagreed so utterly with him. I used to just smile and snigger. Which used to really wind him up!

Your brothers stance is similar to those of some young muslims who turn towards extremist leanings. The few I know have come through it and are now back to being regular moderates.

What helped to bring them back was keeping them in the fold and challenging (or ignoring) their views.

Some of the most vocal critics of Islamism are ex-extremists such as Maajid Nawaaz and Hassan Butt. Their families didn't disown them.

Also staying in touch means you can keep an eye on when things turn from being vocal incoherent ramblings to being tangible threats on people themselves. Many terrorist plots are being foiled from muslims themselves reporting family and acquaintances.

Oh and people can also do a 180 degree about turn:

A former member of Geert Wilders’s anti-immigration Freedom Party has converted to Islam

Your next post could be angst about him becoming a muslim !

And the new Jews are Gypsies imo
And travellers.
Yes, I live on the other side of the world nowadays but find mumsnet amazing. Prejudice against blacks, gays, jews is 100% unacceptable, as it should be, but any thread about Muslims or gypsies makes my skin crawl and my heart break for the members of those groups.

I am surprised too at the number of people in the UK with an interest in comparitive religions nowadays. Do you really get that upset about the ins and outs of a religion that is not your own? When I was young the only religions that people took an interest in were their own or ones that they wanted to join, like Budhism.

What's horrible about not wanting to cause a family row over something that you're very unlikely to be able to do anything about?

Or was it the 'tiresome pest' thing? I do think it's tiresome to parade your right-on credentials on an internet forum and dress it up as a dilemma.

It's simple. If it were my brother I'd de-friend him so his views didn't appear on my newsfeed. If he noticed and asked why, I'd tell him that I didn't approve and didn't want any further discussion.

I wouldn't presume to have a 'serious chat' with him. I'd fully expect to be told where to get off. He's not a child and I am not his mother.

If he brought the views up face-to-face, I'd say firmly I didn't agree and I didn't want to discuss it. If my entire family agreed with him and wanted to talk about it, then I'd have a bigger problem on my hands.

At that point maybe I'd have to think about cutting them all off. That's where such drama gets you.

Can I ask... people who say criticising a religion isn't racism, how do you feel about it if we replace Muslims with Jews?

Your wording suggests that Muslims are the target... often it's islam and they are different. i am perfectly happy to criticize (what little I know of) judaism.

What I think no one likes to talk about is that different religions are good and bad to different degrees and good and bad in different ways. People like to talk about how all religions are equally bad (or good). well, that's just nonsense. the religions say different things and have different liabilities.

Religions are all shit and belief in gods is ludicrous. However, belief in a god can sometimes be a harmless but uninteresting part of a decent, loveable person that you can accept in the same way as you'd accept their interest in some other hobby that doesn't mean anything to you. There are plenty of decent, loveable people who have some religion or other that is, at institutional level, toxic bullshit, and this fact often causes them distress - they either want to improve the institution from the inside or they are worried about being condemned for participating in the nice bits of it (community, heritage, the comforting feeling of having a special imaginary friend, the lovely singing and poetry, whatever).
Regarding Jews, though: it's possible to be Jewish and an atheist/Wiccan/Catholic/Buddhist - being Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religion and there are plenty of Jews who are ethnically Jewish but not practitioners of Jewish religion, just as there are Jews who converted to Judaism but are not ethnically Jewish. It's also possible to oppose the behaviour of the state of Israel without being antisemitic (there are Jews who are horrified by the way the Israeli government treats Palestsinians.)

It's also worth remembering that a lot of Muslim extremists are anti-semitic. The utterly disgusting Nation of Islam group hate Jews just as much as they hate women and LGBTQ people.