To ask DPs smoker father to change top to hold our newborn?

[ladyrosy]

We are the delighted parents of a beautiful 20 day old boy.

We've been asking any visitors who smoke to wear a top they haven't yet smoked in to hold him, so bringing a clean top to change in to where necessary. So far no-no-one has had a problem with this.

DP mentioned this to his dad yesterday when talking about his visit today. DPs dad pulled out of the visit as a result. We've tried to tell him it's not personal or judging of us - it is purely health based. He hasn't replied and hasn't turned up. I am surprised he has chosen to not meet his first grandchild because of this.

Is our request unreasonable?

I am trying to not like my dislike of him cloud my feelings on this.

I grew up in a family of smokers, I have asthma and mum died from smoking.

I have a 16 week old and I must admit I was utterly paranoid about the smoking thing, as many people in both our families smoke, and the idea of asking MIL to not come in smelling of smoke really wound me up because everything that is different to what was done in her day was a trial.

I asked all smokers not to smoke prior to coming in the house, and that they couldn't nip out for a "break" while they were here too. BUT I do think you are being over the top on the clothing side of it.

I am not defending FIL he has acted like a fool, but some people do overreact like that when embarrassed/offended. Either way, he's in the wrong.

But I say it for your own piece of mind. The guidelines are there to keep baby safe and healthy and to make sure baby doesn't come into regular contact of things that harm them, especially with households that have smokers.

As for a t shirt, as long as the person doesn't come in after just smoking, you need to think about the chemicals and yes, they will be present, BUT you need to think about the concentration in the air if you walk past busy roads, people smoking on the street....etc, things need to be put into to perspective. Yes I wouldn't be too jolly about baby nuzzling her face into a smokers clothes, but a quick hold and a coo over her, it's minuscule.

But, your baby your choice. No one can say what you are doing is wrong, because it's better than being the polar opposite and being completely complacent.

I thought this was normal! I smoke, no DC and I wash hands and take coat off or change top before holding someone's baby. Preferably I would admire them from a distance anyway

I thought this was normal! I smoke, no DC and I wash hands and take coat off or change top before holding someone's baby. Preferably I would admire them from a distance anyway

You'd really have to ask what was wrong with someone who picked smoking over their grandchild.

They didn't, the OP did that.

How? OP didn't demand that grandfather stopped smoking. She simply asked that he changed his top. She didn't force him to refuse.

It really is such a non-argument that there are other toxins in traffic. OP chooses not to add to those toxins. What is wrong with that?

If a smoker has been smoking then they & their clothes stink.

Isn't that enough of a reason for them to change?

When you visit a first time parent, yiu respect their rules. You are sensitive to the fact that they are vulnerable and overwhelmed and you comply with their requests. That's if you care about them. It would be no hassle at all for the FIL to change his top, it's not even remotely inconvenient but he's refused to see his grandchild. Someone that selfish and insensitive is hardly a loss to the baby.

Yanbu

Smokers in general haven't the foggiest just how much it stinks (and makes them stink). I went out while DD was napping and when I came back, as soon as I opened the door, I could smell that DH had been smoking. Even though he'd opened a window.

In a waiting room a young lady went out for a few minutes, breezed back in stinking of smoke. A couple of people moved seats.

I guess if you smoke you are used to the smell but if you're a non smoker it's as obvious as splattering dark paint on a previously white canvas.

"When you visit a first time parent, yiu respect their rules"

And he has

Yanbu but expect weird reaction unfortunately. We asked sil (like all visitors in the first couple of weeks) wash her hands before picking up newborn she still holds a grudge 2 years

Phantom - I am a non-smoker. I never have and never would smoke. If I'm honest, I think it a bit gross.

But I find it laughably PFB to ask someone to change their top before cuddling my babies. It's so unnecessary and controlling. I would just never do it.

YAnbu at all. You have a tiny baby and you naturally want to do your best by your child. Perhaps send him the guidelines so he can see it being said by 3rd party.

I'm glad the 'guidelines' have been debunked because they bore no relation to the OP anyway. There are FAR too many posters who cite things as fact that are not - and the bandwagon jumpers, well no change there...

OP... What if you all met your FIL somewhere neutral, like a Harvester-type place where, if he smoked, he/you could be outside and walk the baby away from him. Hand him over a while after he's stopped smoking.

The top-changing is ridiculously controlling as is the teeth cleaning. I hate the smell of smoking but used to gag when anybody had been drinking coffee and tried to kiss me too. He's not smoking in your home and he will quite probably moderate any smoking in deference to the baby. He doesn't need a guilt trip piled on him which is what the top-changing would make him feel.

Really do think about what are the REAL risks and what are the perceived ones. Being indignant and adamant in your resolve is just going to take this situation to a place you don't really want to go. Speak to your husband about this and decide, before it goes too far and for too long. If it were me, I'd sort this today - and I would back down on the top-change thing as me/us being PFB because the objective here is that your FIL sees his grandchild and forms a bond, isn't it?

It will take more than effort from the OP and her husband to fix this. The sulky FIL needs to grow up and stop being such a diva.

I'm a smoker who doesn't have much to do with babies. I can understand parental concern about proximity to nicotine-soaked puffers. What I don't get is the smokers 'stink' factor. Surely babies can be pretty stinky too?

How do urban parents prevent exposure to our very poor air-quality? Perhaps they start to drive much less thus improving air for all the PFBs.

That just sounds a bit defensive, Prole. Cigarette smoke is very smelly and it lingers, baby-shit doesn't, quick hose-down and change and good to go.

It's a straw man argument to keep talking about the diesel fumes from traffic and general poor air quality because that is not 'personal', for a friend/relative to have little regard for a baby/child and smoke around it, is quite offensive to many. To me, that's the difference. It IS personal.

The objective her is for OP's FIL to see the baby... how that is going to be achieved is down to her/her husband, but they'll probably all have to make a concession or two.

Could you hand the baby over wrapped in a blanket, then change the blanket after? I don't blame you not wanting your baby to smell of smoke.

Actually I find the homes of babies can have a lingering smell of shit and Milton. Doubtless parents are as immune to it as I am to my fags.

As for pollution - if I didn't smoke but walked around to see my friends' baby, would I not be covered in particulate pollution? If babies are to be kept away from harmful chemicals - which I understand BTW - shouldn't this be a factor too?

Does he believe smoking/2nd/3rd hand smoke is harmful?

My DM thinks it's all a big conspiracy and that lung cancer is 'in your genes' and even if smoking causes it she'd rather die of that than dementia!

She looks at me as if I've grown an extra thread if I close a door between smokers in a room and non smokers in another.

If I really put my foot down she'd go around telling people I'd gone nuts!

I have yet to open a pupil's reading bag at school and be treated to a waft of shit and Milton but you can tell the kid whose parents like a fag. Still at least having to air the book out means they're actually hearing their child read so it's not all bad news

As for pollution - if I didn't smoke but walked around to see my friends' baby, would I not be covered in particulate pollution? If babies are to be kept away from harmful chemicals - which I understand BTW - shouldn't this be a factor too?

So what? That is something that is largely unavoidable. Parents are entitled to ask that avoidable pollution be minimised. They are also entitled to ask that their babies and their babies clothes' not be made to smell of stale tobacco smoke.

Oh god yes i hate marking books that stink of cigarettes. That child must be surrounded by smoke.

I admit to being unaware to the dangers of third hand smoking.

Fortunately it wasn't an issue when our kids were babies or toddlers.

However I did find this from the Scientific American, which I believe to be a reputable source:
www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-third-hand-smoke/

I am sorry if this has already been posted, I did try to rtfp

partial that SA article is from 2009....talking to Winickoff - whose research team works at the 'Center for Tobacco Control Research and Education at the University of California'
The PNAS paper (2010) was supported by 'the University of California Tobacco-Related Diseases Research Program'
Not sure if they are the same group or related ...
But a cynic might say that tobacco control and related diseases has been a well funded and well researched area ...and a group solely focusing on this may well be running out of things to study...and therefore may struggle to get future funding. Unless of course they found a new 'problem' that needed further research ....how convenient that they have...