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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask DPs smoker father to change top to hold our newborn?

148 replies

ladyrosy · 16/05/2015 12:58

We are the delighted parents of a beautiful 20 day old boy. Smile

We've been asking any visitors who smoke to wear a top they haven't yet smoked in to hold him, so bringing a clean top to change in to where necessary. So far no-no-one has had a problem with this.

DP mentioned this to his dad yesterday when talking about his visit today. DPs dad pulled out of the visit as a result. We've tried to tell him it's not personal or judging of us - it is purely health based. He hasn't replied and hasn't turned up. I am surprised he has chosen to not meet his first grandchild because of this.

Is our request unreasonable?

I am trying to not like my dislike of him cloud my feelings on this.

OP posts:
getdownshep · 16/05/2015 19:26

My dh has to visit people in their homes as part of his job.
He came home last week at lunch time to change his clean shirt because it stunk of a customers fag smoke.
The thought of him holding a baby with that on is horrible.
My fil was a heavy smoker,luckily he never wanted to hold our dds.
Let him sulk, selfish man.

TenerifeSea · 16/05/2015 19:27

He's being an arse not to just agree to change his top. It's no great hardship. It's not like you're asking him to give up smoking.

Perhaps the FIL is one of those smokers who smells and the OP doesn't want her tiny baby to stink of fags.

Topseyt · 16/05/2015 19:30

Congratulations on your new baby.

When my children were babies three out of four grandparents and one uncle were heavy smokers. I mean chain smokers very often, or rarely going more than 5 minutes (10 at most) without a cigarette or pipe.

There was only so far any of them were prepared to compromise, and changing tops would not have been on their agenda. When at our house all of them always smoked outside, never inside. No-one who was smoking actually held the baby, though stopping older children from following grandma/grandad outside to chat to them when they were having a smoke was not possible.

When we were visiting DH's parents house, his mum and brother were the smokers there. They usually tended to smoke outside as MIL fretted about the damage it would do to the decor and paintwork.

My parents never would have been that flexible. They smoke in their living room, kitchen and bedroom (though not in the guest bedrooms). The result was them visiting us more than the other way around, and we often only saw them three or four times a year for a night or two (with kids usually either being taken for a walk or asleep in separate rooms).

None of them would ever have agreed to the changing of top idea. If I had gone for that one then my children would never have known any of their wider family. I must say though, they seem to have survived unscathed, and are now healthy 19, 16 and 12 year olds.

Your house, your baby, your rules though. I think it is fair enough. I am not a smoker, though I did grow up with a pair of very stubborn ones. They are actually lovely people, and are caring and very generous. I do love them to bits, although the smoking has caused the odd issue. My kids are older now obviously, and tend to go off and do their own thing, so it is no longer the issue it was when they were babies with little choice but to be wherever they were put.

namechange0dq8 · 16/05/2015 19:39

My DM will never speak to me again if I tell her she can't hold the baby after smoking.

So could always stop smoking.

ApocalypseThen · 16/05/2015 19:52

I recommend reading Ben Goldacre's Bad Science and to read everything you read reported in the press/on websites (by people with little understanding of scientific research) with a very hefty dose of salt.

I have read it, and despite that, I find the insinuation that anyone who chooses to follow the direct and explicit advice of their GP and midwife is being ridiculous quite patronizing. Now, you may feel there's insufficient evidence for disliking babies getting third hand smoke, I see no reason who babies would be exposed to it. It's not environmentally normal. It's completely chosen by smokers and frankly, their judgement is very strongly and poorly affected by their addiction.

Reading one journalism style book and developing a cool skepticism of all claims based on it may be fine for you, but many of us accept that it doesn't provide sufficient medical or research knowledge to simply dismiss the advice of the HCPs who give this advice. Not kooky websites, not people with equally poor medical training, but experts in pediatric health.

unlucky83 · 16/05/2015 20:47

Apocalypse I can't find any NHS guidelines that say people must remove their tops or in fact anything about 3rd hand smoke apart from what I linked - please can you provide a link?
(Oh and BTW I was research scientist, have a Phd - looking objectively at research was part of my job - my views are not based on that book alone - but it is a good book to introduce some of the concepts involved in evaluating research to non-scientists)

WorraLiberty · 16/05/2015 20:55

The top changing is one of those weird things that I've only seen on MN.

Never heard of anyone requesting it or doing it in real life.

eyebags63 · 16/05/2015 21:47

Not smoking in the same room or in the car is one thing, but making guests change their clothes is just ridiculous. Any risk (IF it exists) will probably be so tiny as to be insignificant.

How the hell did anybody survive to adulthood before all these bizarre health and safety style 'rules' became the norm...

I think YABVU. PFB I'm afraid. Biscuit

5Foot5 · 16/05/2015 22:02

Lots of people have pointed out that this is the standard advice now, therefore for anyone who has had a baby in the last few years this might not seem like a particularly strange request.

But if you are not in that position then you have probably never heard of anyone requesting this and, honestly it does sound extreme. I can sort of understand someone taking umbrage at being told they have to change their clothes before they are allowed near your baby.

Oh yes and I am another one of those lucky people born and brought up in a house where there was a smoker (my Dad) who somehow managed to survive to adulthood with no ill effects.

MitzyLeFrouf · 16/05/2015 22:11

I too can understand people thinking it's over the top, but I feel sorry for the OP that her FIL not only thinks it's over the top but has gone off in a huff declaring he'd rather not his very first grandchild rather than go along with their polite (if bonkers to him) request.

unlucky83 · 16/05/2015 22:11

No-one has yet provided written proof that is standard advice...and if it is what research that advice is based upon (hopefully not solely that 2010 PNAS paper)
Oh - and as to following midwives advice...
Rates of SIDS were high from the late 60s/70s to late 80s/early 90s when the 'back to sleep' campaign started....and they declined.
That time frame roughly correlates to the period that midwives started and then stopped advising that babies were put to sleep on their stomachs to prevent them choking on their vomit...

(Back sleeping does seem to be extremely important in the prevention of SIDS....BUT we still don't know what causes it.
We should never imply that it is something we can prevent if only we do everything right -because we can't. We can only reduce what we currently think the risks are. Its is traumatic enough to suddenly lose a baby, parents don't need the added guilt of trying to work out why it was their fault - when very likely there was nothing they could do.)

MitzyLeFrouf · 16/05/2015 22:11

*rather not meet.

InnTheJungle · 16/05/2015 22:13

"Can someone link to this NHS guidelines/advice?"

No they can't, because it's not.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/reducing-risk-cot-death.aspx

"Don't share a bed with your baby if you're a smoker."

"Don’t let anyone smoke in the same room as your baby
Anyone who needs to smoke should go outside. "

It doesn't say 'change their clothes, beg forgiveness of the PFB's mother' and perform a dozen Hail Marys.

It just says go outside.

Absolutely ridiculous.

And btw the NHS actually go so far as to debunk some of this fucking ridiculous scaremongering:

www.nhs.uk/news/2009/01January/Pages/Thirdhandsmoke.aspx

"Oh and BTW I was research scientist, have a Phd - looking objectively at research was part of my job "

Yes exactly, there are carcinogenic chemicals, poisons, etc., all around us, bombarding us constantly all the time, a sense of proportion is very important.

Bollocks, bollocks, total ridiculous overreacting bollocks.

MitzyLeFrouf · 16/05/2015 22:14

Feeling a bit tense there InntheJungle? Maybe you should roll up something soothing.

InnTheJungle · 16/05/2015 22:15

Not tense at all, I just come over all ragey when people start giving Daily Mail-style health advice.

RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie · 16/05/2015 22:15

Yabu. Honestly? I hate smoking but I think this makes you sound an absolute fruit loop.

MitzyLeFrouf · 16/05/2015 22:17

Tense and ragey I'd say.

MitzyLeFrouf · 16/05/2015 22:19

Honestly this is the advice many health visitors give, it isn't fair to call the OP a fruit loop. Her FIL sounds like the stroppy fruit loop.

StAlphonsosPancakeBreakfast · 16/05/2015 22:22

You'd really have to ask what was wrong with someone who picked smoking over their grandchild.

InnTheJungle · 16/05/2015 22:24

You'd really have to ask what was wrong with someone who picked smoking over their grandchild.

They didn't, the OP did that.

IamJeff · 16/05/2015 22:25

When my fil held my newborn for the first time I was disgusted that my beautiful baby smelled of smoke Hmm

However I chose to say nothing, not spoiling his moment just because he was a smoker and probably oblivious to how he smelled.

Changing top is ridiculous. Ok maybe ask they don't have a fag got a few hours before they visit?

Do you take you baby near traffic
? Or do you ask them to stop their engine until you've walked past? Do you live near a road? Do they close the road so your baby can breathe pure air 24/7Confused

pickwickcrocus · 16/05/2015 22:31

Yanbu.

I don't think you are being over the top or crazy at all. I am someone who, for both of my children (therefore not PFB) has requested that smokers wear fresh clothes when holding my babies. The only person this means for me is my dad (and his wife) who happily complied, they may have had a moan about it in private but I don't care quite frankly if they did, and it certainly didn't stop them meeting their first grandson!

Apart from being vaguely aware of the health reasons, my main motivation is the vile and disgusting smell of smokers and their clothes. My children do not need their faces pressed into that disgusting smell, with horrid stale smoke breath over them too. Yuk.

pickwickcrocus · 16/05/2015 22:34

Oh and also, the smell of my newborn is amazing and wonderful, I love cuddling up to him and smelling his hair and I absolutely don't want that replaced with gross smoke smell either.

unlucky83 · 16/05/2015 22:39

inn Grin Maybe a little tense and ragey ...but I am with you...it is incredibly frustrating especially when it is apparently health professionals who are coming out with this nonsense
(unless some further research backs it up?)
As I said - if you don't like it -fine. I agree. But not for some apparently non-existent health concern.

Coffee1234 · 16/05/2015 22:43

YANBU. Could he compromise by wearing a "smoking jacket" and taking it off when he visits? For those talking about incidental and inevitable toxin exposure why not minimise what you can? We're pretty relaxed parents, overall but wouldn't have let a smelly smoker transfer their grotty cigarette filth onto our children as newborns.

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