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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to have not given up my seat for this child

137 replies

addstudentdinners2 · 13/05/2015 14:28

I have suspected endometriosis (being investigated) and get excruciating cramps leading up to AF. Got on crowded tube this morning feeling absolutely lousy, stomach really hurting and also feeling faint/hot. Woman got on tube at same time as me with 2 DC, one older boy at a guess about 13 and girl at a guess about 8/9. There was one seat, I took it as desperately needed to sit down, only to see little girl standing in front of me glaring as I'd quite clearly beaten her to the seat (hadn't intended to, didn't know she was going for it as well), and then mother said very loudly 'you can just always tell the women who haven't got kids'.

which was v hurtful as have ongoing fertility issues.

others around me tutted at me and huffed and puffed and felt really bad. WIBU to have stolen this seat from a child? I really felt unwell.

OP posts:

5Foot5 · 15/05/2015 00:22

Are you sure the tutting and huffing and puffing was at you and not at the mother of the little girl? I would be surprised if many people expected a child of that age to take a seat and let an adult stand.

Lweji · 15/05/2015 00:30

the people tutting should have stood up and offered their own seats.

This.

I once got on a train with young DS (of about 3 or 4) and who got very nervous standing on a moving transport, and a woman barged past to get to the only seat. Despite what I thought of her (and sorry if she was desperate like the OP) I wouldn't dream of saying anything out loud about it.
A man stood up and gave us his seat. Which is the right way to behave. Not tut.

Lweji · 15/05/2015 00:32

I don't understand this feeling on MN about children should give up seats to all adults, they have the same right and have also paid to travel

Not on the London Underground or buses. Free travel there for under 16s, and for over 16s in full time education.

Whether someone pays to use public transport is not here nor there on the right to take up a seat. Over 60s get free bus passes (do they still get them?) and of course we should offer a seat. It should be all about vulnerability, not a paid ticket.

SoldierBear · 15/05/2015 06:03

What a crazy loon. Of course an 8 year old is more than capable of standing and there is no reason why an adult should give her a seat. Sounds like that mother wanted to wrap her little darling in cotton wool and expected others to realise she was made of glass....

Lweji - many travel companies used to state that children could travel free but had to give up their seat if a fare paying passenger needed it. Which seems more than sensible. In the case of a young child who required a seat then the fare paying passenger accompanying them could simply take them on their knee. If a child is old enough to travel independently (and in this city there are plenty of that age who do so to get to school by bus) then they can't be said to "need" a seat just because they are a child

An 8 year old travelling with her mother and older sibling is not vulnerable.
An 8 year old travelling by themselves isn't vulnerable just because they are standing

Groovee · 15/05/2015 06:10

I have an invisible disability. Your condition is invisible too. But I'd be pissed off if a child was glaring at me for a seat as I shouldn't have to explain why I need to sit down and nor should you.

To the mother on the tube, should you be reading this, unhoik your judgeypants and teach your children manners with regards to not always grabbing a seat or glaring at people when they don't get the seat. It was passive aggressive to even comment about the OP being rude.

EugenesAxe · 15/05/2015 06:38

A prize cuntbitch. I'm annoyed I wasn't there to say 'I have children and I'd expect them to give way to adults, and teach them not to make judgements about relative need.'

Regarding the endometriosis- a friend of mine had it badly (unable to have children) and found eliminating refined sugar got rid of the monthly pain. She did a trial one month and reintroduced it; she said the pain immediately returned.

keepitsimple0 · 15/05/2015 14:12

An 8 year old travelling by themselves isn't vulnerable just because they are standing

neither is a 30 year old though.

Age shouldn't determine who stands. Vulnerability and first to the seat. I am well over 30 but can stand no problem. I don't expect anyone to give up a seat for me.

Original poster

addstudentdinners2 · 15/05/2015 14:23

thank you so much for the responses everyone :)

OP posts:

BarbarianMum · 15/05/2015 14:30

In all honesty, if I thought an adult had 'raced' a child for a seat I would probably judge. But in this case OP I would have been wrong to do so.

I wouldn't give up my seat for an 8 year old though - not unless they looked really knackered, or the train was dangerously crowded. For 5 and under, I would (although, again, OP, that's not to say you should if you are in pain).

WinterIsGoing · 15/05/2015 14:38

I was born in the early 70s and i was taught to stand up for older/adult people.

I would get my children to either share/stand up/sit on my seat/lap

Its not about being 2nd class, its about showing some respect.

limitedperiodonly · 15/05/2015 15:06

I don't think children should give up their seats for adults and I give mine up to small children who are getting bashed about.

However I'd have sat tight in your position and answered the stupid woman back if I felt like it.

I was once sitting down on a packed bus and this girl of about eight or 10 was deliberately leaning on me in an effort to make me get up for her. Her mother could see it and was letting her do it. In the end I told her to stop it. The mother said she wasn't doing anything and I said she was, she was really fucking annoying me. I think I looked like an easy target for fun at first and then came over as very aggressive because the mother said nothing more and the kid stopped it.

I'm neither, just a bit in-between.

I have no disabilities, hidden or otherwise. I just got the seat first. If the girl genuinely needed the seat, her mother could have asked.

They were really strange.

keepitsimple0 · 15/05/2015 15:10

Its not about being 2nd class, its about showing some respect.

respect for what? respect is earned, not just aged into.

Lweji · 15/05/2015 15:20

many travel companies used to state that children could travel free but had to give up their seat if a fare paying passenger needed it

Do they still say it?

Original poster

addstudentdinners2 · 15/05/2015 15:23

Have to say I think whoever gets to the seat first is entitled to it (child or adult) assuming the person you beat to it is fit and able-bodied/not in pain etc.

Having said that I do often feel quite sorry for children on the tube so I will stand up for them.

OP posts:

limitedperiodonly · 15/05/2015 15:29

Why should someone give me their seat just because I'm older than them?

I've missed a trick. I'm going to start asking for birth certificates on the Victoria Line.

My 90 year old mother used to refuse seats on short hops on the tube because she was capable of standing as long as she had something to lean on and it was more trouble than it was worth to clamber over and then clamber back again after a few stops.

That usually disappointed public-spirited people - and there are many. I used to feel grateful to them for offering and a bit sorry for them because people usually do really want to help someone who appears to be in need and are hurt by the rejection, however polite.

I should know. I offered to carry someone's shopping yesterday and she refused. She had a tartan sholley plus several carrier bags. She must have been about 80 and looked like a pack mule.

She'd stopped for a breather. She was very cheerful in her rejection of help though

HeyDuggee · 15/05/2015 15:33

I hate it when children will race - and I mean race knocking into anything and anyone in their way - half way down the carriage to try to beat you to the seat right in front of you. I usually stop to let them have it and instead of saying thank you, they glare at me and look triumphantly at mummy. Who is looking back smugly instead of being horrified at his/her behaviur. I do usually fix her in the eye and mutter, "you're bloody welcome".

limitedperiodonly · 15/05/2015 15:43

I do have a hidden disability all these years after the bus incident with the dying swan of a child, though it's not registered.

I appear fit and healthy, and mostly am, except that I have a neurological condition that has fucked my balance. Most people wouldn't notice it unless I fell over and then they'd probably think I was drunk.

So I will sit tight if I get a seat. If someone asked me to stand - they never have - if I was feeling wobbly, I'd explain to them and ask them to ask someone else. On a good day, I'd get up. No age restrictions apply.

The greatest tragedy is that I can no longer wear skyscraper heels. I now have a completely new wardrobe built around very expensive, cool trainers.

It's not the same though.

balletnotlacrosse · 15/05/2015 15:43

I do think if you're offered a seat you should accept it gracefully unless you're getting off in a couple of stops or something.
Just refusing to accept it causes embarrassment and makes people think twice before offering again.

crapfatbanana · 15/05/2015 15:45

FFS. YWNBU.

limitedperiodonly · 15/05/2015 15:46

It's not the child HeyDuggee, it's the mother.

I realise I'm sounding like one of those people who says it's not the dog but the owner.

You shouldn't push and shove unless it's the last lifeboat on the Titanic.

balletnotlacrosse · 15/05/2015 15:49

I agree limited. If children behave in a way that is rude and obnoxious (as opposed to just the normal lack of thought that we all probably demonstrated as kids) nine times out of ten they will have rude and obnoxious parents.

muminhants · 15/05/2015 15:58

If I got there first, I got there first. if someone then asked me for the seat because they felt ill or otherwise needed it more than I did, that's another matter. Not because the mum is rude and clearly thinks the world should revolve around her not so little darlings.

Original poster

addstudentdinners2 · 15/05/2015 16:03

I realise I'm sounding like one of those people who says it's not the dog but the owner.

I am one of those people I'm afraid :)

OP posts:

MehsMum · 15/05/2015 16:10

YANBU.
The mother was being vile and unpleasant and if I'd be there, I'd have been tutting at her, not at you.

OnlyLovers · 15/05/2015 16:12

I hate it when children will race - and I mean race knocking into anything and anyone in their way - half way down the carriage to try to beat you to the seat right in front of you.

Adults do this too, on the tube in London. I find it baffling. Is it THAT important to get a seat?

You can see when someone next to you is about to do it too; they get a tunnel-vision look in their eyes.

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