Who is unreasonable? what does MN think of this?

[ollieplimsoles]

this story just broke on social media, (hope you can all see it)

www.facebook.com/donna.m.beegle/posts/816056981803855

That is the mothers account of what happened, very mixed responses from the commenters, what does everyone think?

Here is a news report of it:
7online.com/news/parents-plan-legal-action-after-daughter-with-autism-kicked-off-flight/713012/

Oh FFS.

Snowflakes I've reported those two abhorrent posts.

bambamini No airline staff aren't infallible. However, people need to remember that they aren't just air waitresses there to cater to your every need. They are there to ensure the safety, and comfort of ALL passengers.

I assume they work on the premise 'If in doubt work off the worst case senerio' which to be honest I think is fair enough. Could you imagine what would have happened if this teenager had harmed another passenger or herself? Everyone would be just as up in arms saying that they should have removed her.

I agree with pp that mother describing the scratching was in an attempt to get the flight attendant to take her seriously.

It doesn't matter what it was an attempt at, it was a stupid thing to say in a plane.

I can remember reading a story a while back about a man who had to be restrained on a flight after he started attacking passengers, he had SN. The air line could not have known this but where vilified for not doing more to prevent it. It would appear you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Oh FFS now what?

Wow Snowflakes did you name change specially to post those intelligent thoughts?

It doesn't matter what it was an attempt at, it was a stupid thing to say in a plane.

Fair enough. I wish this hysteria over planes would end though. To my mind, describing scratching, especially when the girl isn't sitting next to other passengers but her parents, isn't a good reason to land the plane. And please know that the whole US airport / airline culture is imbued with such a sense of self righteousness and officiousness - you wonder if they realise they're running a business for paying customers, because they act as though they're doing you a huge favour.

And please know that the whole US airport / airline culture is imbued with such a sense of self righteousness and officiousness - you wonder if they realise they're running a business for paying customers, because they act as though they're doing you a huge favour.

Yes they are, I fly out of the US a lot, however, there has to be some level of 'fear' to keep people 'in line'. You have a limited number of staff trying to control a couple of hundred people in a tin can flying in the air. If the threat of such heavy handedness keeps me and my family safe on a flight, I welcome it.

To my mind, describing scratching, especially when the girl isn't sitting next to other passengers but her parents, isn't a good reason to land the plane.

The airline did not know whether she would stay in her seat. She could also scratch the passenger in front of her, flail about and hurt herself and the passenger in front of her. Its about risk management.

In the U.S. People diagnosed with being on the spectrum are protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act. Under this act, it is their legal right to have reasonable adjustments made in order to provide them with access to services which non-impaired people are able to access.
Reasonable adjustments include things such as ensuring that a wheelchair can fit through openings and many other things which enable people to enjoy the same freedoms that currently able bodied people do. It may be that this mother is attempting to make big companies, such as airlines, aware of how much they discriminate against people on the spectrum and fail to make accommodations for them. It may be that she's a chancerwho just wants to cash in. It would be up to a court of law to decide whether a hot meal, which was available, would be seen as a reasonable accommodation for this child (albeit an older child). Yes, there may have been other ways to resolve the situation, or it could be that the mother had tried those and was left with no other option, but the airline does need to make sure that it provides for any reasonable requests made by someone protected under this law.

It looks unlikely that we will know the full facts from this example, so the main question is: should an airline be willing to provide hot food to someone who requires it, if that person's requirement is due to an impairment defined within the act?

rawwhh - " bambamini No airline staff aren't infallible. However, people need to remember that they aren't just air waitresses there to cater to your every need. They are there to ensure the safety, all passengers"

I do know that, but that doesn't mean that some staff can't be unpleasant and difficult. We don't really know what the case was here. Unless you think they are beyond reproach.

Bambamini I think we will have to disagree on that as I will always be an 'err on the side of caution' kind of person in these situations .

So you are saying you are happy for them to do and act however they like without ever being held accountable - ok...

Um, not sure I deserved that but okay

In the U.S. People diagnosed with being on the spectrum are protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act. Under this act, it is their legal right to have reasonable adjustments made in order to provide them with access to services which non-impaired people are able to access.
Reasonable adjustments include things such as ensuring that a wheelchair can fit through openings and many other things which enable people to enjoy the same freedoms that currently able bodied people do. It may be that this mother is attempting to make big companies, such as airlines, aware of how much they discriminate against people on the spectrum and fail to make accommodations for them.

Yes, however in the absence of magic wands these things need to be communicated with the service providers up front. If you need a hotel room with a disabled bathroom, you can't just turn up to the fully booked hotel and demand it - you have to pre-book. And they an only do so much (hence the word reasonable). if all of those rooms are already booked, they don't have to go and adapt another one for you.

One person might view being able to buy a meal that nobody else in that part of the plane can buy as reasonable, others might not. Only a court can decide which is correct.

I do think that aside from anything else, this woman should have planned better. A couple of pot noodles in her bag, whilst not exactly high quality cuisine, could easily have boiling water added to provide the required hot meal. Unless she pre-books and pays for a hot meal (two minutes on the united page shows it is not an option on this airline), or flies in first/business class, then she can't expect there to necessarily be a hot meal available on demand. She should have planned for this possibly eventuality, rather than argue for an hour and threaten her child's violence to get her way.

Snowflakes, I've reported you too and hope you get banned.

Toads, no, you didn't deserve that. Don't waste any thought on it - those comments speak volumes about the person who posted them, not about you.

Disappointed, as I said, it's very hard with this example to know for sure exactly what the situation is, but many internal flights merely say that a meal will be served and there is almost no way to communicate beforehand. If you attempt to raise a question you get told to book via an agent, for which there is a fee. It may well be that the family turned up with no attempt at prior booking, or that they had done everything possible and we're still left in that situation. Many small US terminals have next to no facilities for passengers. Even big ones have almost nothing outside of day time hours.

However, there were hot meals just a few steps away, and the flight attendants refused to get one. It's not exactly like asking for a hotel room to be remodeled at a few minutes' notice. The law would look at this purely under whether it was a reasonable request, and if so it should have been met.

Kickassangel

Er, what? I am literally in an internal US flight tomorrow and I've never heard of this agent business. Every US airline will pick up the phone - always. And weren't they flying from Houston to Portland? It's hardly the American backwaters. There would have been hot food at the terminal. And the mother stated that she had travelled "all over America" so I'm guessing she was not an inexperienced traveller. It just sounds to me like the mother got a bit shirty but then sort of threatened violence so the captain had to land.

Kiss it isn't reasonable to to assume an airline can meet anyones needs without prior knowledge.

I have flown all over the US, with several airlines. Never had a problem getting in touch and notifying them of anything we may need.

There would have been hot food at the terminal.

Mother says the girl refused her dinner before they boarded. Anyone here tried force feeding a baby, let alone a fifteen year old?

Toads

What about support for someone with autism in our midst as well as support for a girl on a plane?

I have no idea what to think.

Maybe we will get to see video of the "incident" and it will be easier to decide if the pilot over reacted, or if the mother overreacted.

Soap

I am saying that there are things that don't add up.

Yes, the airline could have handled this better, but so could the mother.