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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be worried about these children based on a small window into their life?

175 replies

Itsmethechubbyfunster1 · 10/05/2015 12:09

To start, I know I'm being a tad UR. My judgeypants are so far up my own backside they are coming out of my mouth.

DP and I went out for breakfast today. Opposite us was a family with two small children aged maybe 1ish and 2ish.
They were both filthy. No coats, no socks (not warm today and was drizzling outside) the little girls hair looked like it hadn't been brushed for days.
Both parents were eating, kids had nothing. Swigging coke out of baby bottles.

Neither parent said a single word to either child until the older one started banging her head against her high hair repeatedly and mum told her to 'shut up being annoying'. That was the only exchange the whole time.

I have a toddler, I know it's tiring, I know sometimes you forget the coat, I know they get dirty, I know they smear food in their hair and they can go from pristine to child protection messy in 0.2 seconds but it just felt like too many variables and I was left feeling very uneasy and I'm still thinking about those two babies now.

OP posts:
AlmaMartyr · 10/05/2015 14:53

I agree totally with MrsDeVere. I've occasionally been in situations where I've thought 'Gosh, people seeing us now must think we're terrible parents' but there's always been a good explanation (often when travelling and exhausted).

Sorry you felt unnerved by it though.

GahBuggerit · 10/05/2015 14:54

i ignore my kids when im eating. they get enough bloody attention the rest of the time. im such a horrible mother Hmm

bobajob · 10/05/2015 14:54

You can't know if those children are being neglected from a small snapshot, as the OP acknowledges. She can't do anything about it either way so it doesn't really matter.

However, silent dirty children, inappropriately dressed for the weather, coke in bottles, no positive interaction, the head banging. It would have made me feel worried for them too.

lambsie · 10/05/2015 14:55

Where were you that serves a meal like that at 9am?

GahBuggerit · 10/05/2015 15:00

i know lambsie, youd be very hard pushed to find a greasy spoon let alone a cafe that would serve anything but breakfast at that time round here. even mc effing d's has its limit! very peculiar

WorraLiberty · 10/05/2015 15:05

Well said MrsDeVere

7amWakeUp · 10/05/2015 15:07

Burger and chips and pudding at 9am...hangover or munchies I think

usualsuspect333 · 10/05/2015 15:08

MrsDV hits the nail on the head with 'it's not very MN'

Anyway if the kids in that scene had been shrieking and making a noise, some bugger would have started a thread moaning about noisy kids in cafes.

YorkieButtonsizeMen · 10/05/2015 15:15

Thought you were leaving the thread, Worra? when all you've done is seek to mock those who are concerned about children being treated in a not particularly good way. What's your motive here?

MrsDevere, I disagree. Coke in a bottle is neglect. It's causing acid erosion to their teeth. It's full of caffeine which is awfully bad for their little bodies and minds. It's full of sugar, which is also bad for them.

How is that NOT neglect?

YorkieButtonsizeMen · 10/05/2015 15:16

and would anyone here give their child coke in a bottle? Seriously?

GahBuggerit · 10/05/2015 15:32

it might not have been coke anyway, guinness looks remarkably similar in a bottle.

Feminine · 10/05/2015 15:36

I'm not middle class, seen quite a few horrible things in my time. Some in my own childhood.
Op's description, sounds concerning.
It doesn't have to be abuse of a physical nature.
One of those concerns (posted about) could be written off.
The selection we've heard about all together paints a different picture.
Don't see how it couldn't Confused

PerpendicularVincenzo · 10/05/2015 15:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Laquitar · 10/05/2015 15:47

From the things in your list the one that always pisses me off is the 'imteraction',
It seems like some people sit in cafes trying to monitor how much parents interact with their children.
In my experience many parents who do the alphabet and numbers and 'interaction' loundly in public do fuck all at home and others are confident enough to eat in silence. Or too tired.

Families -like couples- dont have to interact 24hrs. If they feel comfortable with each other they can be silent for half hour, if thats their personality.

Idefix · 10/05/2015 16:08

Yanbu but sadly think there is little you can do in these anonymous situations.

You may be wrong and have jumped to conclusions but it is also likely that what your gut was telling you was correct. Coming onto a forum like this to help you make sense of what you saw, how you felt and get a gauge from others is also ok.

obviously you just need to pop on some blinkers everytime you go out and never wear your judgeypants op at least in the view of some pp Hmm

I have in a 15 minute session developed and acted on concerns that I have for a child I meet in my job. It would be ludicrous to suggest that I ignore what I see on the basis that I might be off the mark or that it is not long enough to be sure. I often will only see that child that one time so the window to make a difference is small.

It not wrong to feel concerned and upset by such experiences and it is harder I think to rationalise it as you are powerless to take any positive action.

amybear2 · 10/05/2015 16:34

It sounds crap but you really don't know.They may have come by car hence no coats and socks.They had maybe fed kids before they cam e out to save money.Also headbanging is a thing some toddlers do.Maybe need to educate yourself a bit before judging, eh?

NeedsAsockamnesty · 10/05/2015 16:34

I have in a 15 minute session developed and acted on concerns that I have for a child I meet in my job. It would be ludicrous to suggest that I ignore what I see on the basis that I might be off the mark or that it is not long enough to be sure. I often will only see that child that one time so the window to make a difference is small

It very much depends on if those concerns you reported were actual real concerns or if they were just parenting differences.

People are perfectly entitled to have parenting differences. I for example choose not to pierce my children's ears and not have much sugar in the house I choose not to have fizzy drinks other than fizzy water with a bit of lemon juice in it for the kids.

Loads of people think those parenting choices are ridiculous.

And yes plenty of people have meals without conversation I dont,I think it's a bit odd but many people find it desirable either way it would rarely be a child protection concern. Neither is carrying a child straight from a car to a cafe wearing no coat or socks and neither is being a bit gruff in the way you communicate.

amybear2 · 10/05/2015 16:36

In my experience many parents who do the alphabet and numbers and 'interaction' loundly in public do fuck all at home and others are confident enough to eat in silence. Or too tired.

The thing that really bugs me is the 'overpraising' The 'good waiting!' 'good sitting' 'good standing' bollocks.

Original poster
Itsmethechubbyfunster1 · 10/05/2015 16:47

I didn't come here saying 'AIBU to think these children were horribly neglected and should be removed asap'. I said, these are the things I saw, in isolation they could definitely be written off as different parenting choices, one offs etc. as a whole picture it made me feel a bit off.

The fact is, neglect is notoriously difficult to prove. You are all absolutely right, they may have left the coats and shoes and socks and jumpers in the car, they may usually talk to their children and this was the one hour that they didn't. The children might usually be clean and stimulated etc etc but they might not.

There are loads of indicators of neglect that you look at in isolation and think they're ok.

Missing Drs appointments. Lack of age appropriate toys. Delayed milestones. Lack of speech. Lack of weather appropriate clothing. Clothing too small. Lack of interaction.

It was the fact that there were a few things put together that made me feel a bit uneasy.

OP posts:
NeedsAsockamnesty · 10/05/2015 16:55

And pretty much all of those things would require a repeated patten observered over a significant time to identify neglect.

However long you were sat in a cafe observing no interaction and coke drinking is about as useful at identifying neglect as someone who walked past saw you and if you didn't have your toddler with you assuming you had left them home alone.

FluffyCubs · 10/05/2015 16:58

It's outrageous that you lot aren't all agreeing that this does look like lazy parenting at the very least..........why are you making excuses for people who think it's ok to feed their kids coke and not have them in socks or shoes? What makes that ok! No matter how laissez-faire y'all like to think you are.....bet none of you would ever behave like that yourself. Car or no car, Would you really take your kids into a public area barefooted??!!?

Feminine · 10/05/2015 17:06

Exactly Fluffy
This competitive "nothing amiss there" is absolutely crazy.
Or the other beauty : "lifestyle choice"

What really?

With all those signs...
Come on...

NeedsAsockamnesty · 10/05/2015 17:09

Lots of people think that it's best to be without shoes for ages. I'm pretty sure that when I went to the village shop earlier my almost 2yo did not have shoes on and only one sock,she also had hummus all over her hair.

callmewhatever · 10/05/2015 17:09

Fluffycubs yes on occasion my toddler and 1 y.o have taken socks and/or shoes off in the car when doing our weekly shop, I have then carried them to the trolley and walked around the store with them still barefooted. DD2 (1) takes her socks off on most journeys and no matter how often I put them back on she will rip them off again! I dote on my dd's and don't believe doing this means I am neglecting them.

My toddlers hair is also very wild and despite brushing will always look like a birds nest, she also chooses what to wear so can look a bit dishevelled at times but she is happy. I hope nobody thinks me or dw are neglecting our girls because of these small things people view in passing.

Feminine · 10/05/2015 17:13

needs and l bet nobody would have batted an eyelid.
Op saw a collection of things, and based on that she worried.
A bit of food in the hair or no socks is not that interesting.
Why can't some people grasp it was the collection of things that made for a post.

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