Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

[FineDamBeaver]

It's all just sinking in, and the other political threads are too eloquent for what I want to express this morning.

Oh tits. This is rubbish.

Yes, you have every reason to feel proud of having achieved and pulled yourself [and ultimately your son] up by the bootstraps....

But I have also 'temped' back in the day [90s and early 2000s] and it's a different world now. Back when I temped I didn't struggle for work, I was kept on. Yes, it was similar to a zero hours contract in that my agency wasn't obliged to give me hours but there seemed to be enough hours to go around.

Now, with cut backs, I hear of agency workers who are laid off at a moment's notice, shifts cancelled at the last minute, asked to come in and do a few hours work... then take a few hours off and continue their shift in the evening! It doesn't always matter how hard you work or how good you are at your job, in some roles there is minimal to no job continuity or security.

Also Hillingdon, surely you must feel grateful that you fit and well enough to work hard in order to provide for yourself and your son.
Did you have any support with childcare whilst you were working perhaps?

I am sure there are some 'entitled people who thinks the state owes them something' but I think this is mainly lazy DM style rhetoric tbh.

There are also people who are up against it with sickness, disability, mental health issues, DV issues, demanding caring roles for a disabled child or elderly parent, low paid but vital roles, i.e. HCA, hospital porter or bus driver.

Sometimes we need to look past our own noses to understand a little of what our fellow man experiences and why.

Yes I also tempted during those times Annoyed. Like you I never found myself short of work and did all work willingly. I managed to get myself in a job then that has a strong trade union. I have reaped the rewards of the union's hard work and could provide financial stability for my son that my dad could never give me despite working countless jobs.

No- no support from family regarding childcare. We used a nursery then a fab childminder. Now the kids are becoming men of course it's not needed.

We live near London, none of this I don't want to leave my family, like where I live, but I cannot drive etc.

I get increasingly fed up with people using welfare to prop up their crap decisions, who have kids with someone they barely know.

If it was me if you are under 20 you are offered a hostel where you will learn a skill, you will be given patenting classes. If you decide you want to go out you will need to organise a babysitter. Just like real life!

I wouldnt necessarily look at pensions. You only get a pension if you have paid in.

I would look at the empty properties in London especially owned by people abroad that stand empty. Tax them heavily. I would come down hard on anti social behaviour where people live. It must be horrible to fear being in your own house. With problem families rather than give them chance after chance move them to a compound along with all the other problem families. Make it a zero tolerance area. It worked for New York!

This is what is shameful: suicide cases linked to benefit cuts.

Hillingdon are you for real .

I do think it's that mindset thing - if you think you can do anything if you just get out there, effect change, work very hard and work smart you can be amazing and achieve what you want to achieve. Or you can think there is no point and live in poverty.

It isn't a mindset for everyone. Some people have no choice. For people who have a child with complex and multiple disabilities there is no choice because there is no childcare available which can meet their children's needs to enable the parent to go to work, work smart, be amazing and achieve. Those parents probably work much harder and for many more hours than the people earning loads of cash, they probably don't want to be reliant on benefits but they often have no choice.
I worry about these families who have no choice and are saving the govt hundreds of thousands each year by giving up their choices to provide full time care for their children. They might have chosen to have the children but they probably didn't choose to have children with severe disabilities and spend their lives in poverty and being treated as feckless scroungers by some people as a result of their unfortunate circumstances.

So how is someone on a zero hour contract who cannot guarantee theirs hours or regular pay supposed to afford a nursery for their young child?

You keep saying about people using welfare to prop up bad decisions but a large proportion of the welfare received is in Working Tax Credit. People who do work but where work doesn't pay enough for them to live on. How would you decrease that?

I have never said the disabled would be without support. In fact I would like for the serious cases for them to get more.

Excluding the disabled - what do we do with the rest. The very young with a dodgy choice in young lads, the girls who have a child with no means of support and does it again because they gets lots of support and money the last time. The people with the bad back, my relative's partners son who claimed to be depressed because he had just come out of prison. Those people need to get over having checks made on their claim. It's not just a question of telling them you don't feel well and then that is it.

Anyway I believe the right party won. Labour are unlikely to get back in next time unless they show they are for success, who celebrate companies that do well. They were awful at showing that during the campaign and no one could trust them. They are even talking about bringing back David Miliband. They are that desperate!

Hillington

With problem families rather than give them chance after chance move them to a compound along with all the other problem families. Make it a zero tolerance area. It worked for New York!

I don't think you have to say much else. That sentence there tells everyone all they need to know about you.

By your logic Hillington...you damn the innocent along with the guilty.

Eg. "Problem Family Smith" have a history of anti-social behaviour within the family...the family consists of Mum, Dad and 3 children....Dad is an alcoholic...he has form for fighting etc...for being abusive....kids and Mum don't cause any issues. He gets in one too many fights and everyone's dumped in your "compound"? Is that a good idea?

Or....Family Jones...Mum, teen DD and baby. Teen DD has mental health issues...she causes bother...out they go! To the compound.

Riiiiiighhht. Great idea that.

I am going to sound 100 years old but my boss's wife works in the benefits office of her local authority. She says the sense of entitlement for a worrying minority she interviews is staggering. They tend to share info amongst themselves and any loophole is quickly found. Any questioning of what they see as 'essential' is met with abuse and claims of being picked on.

Mrs. They could come and live next door to you. It's easy to claim this and that would not work. What would you suggest when this family makes everyone else's life hell. More support?

Hillingdon, the largest amount of benefits paid out are to people who work. Please try to understand this. The drain, if you will, is not on the tiny minority you speak of but on propping up people who do not earn enough.

Hillingdon Oh don't imagine I DON'T live near families with problems...I do...I live on a large inner city council estate.

I don't judge though. I look at the deeper issues...issues which in many cases began generations ago within some of the families and make change extremely hard to facilitate.

I also do what I can to support the vulnerable in my community. I'd rather that than live in a police state.

Hillingdon - I hardly know where to start with some of your comments but I'd like to try

1. Sticking problem families together in a "compound" is one of the most daft ideas I've read on these threads for a long time. In many difficult area it is precisely because "problem" families are in the same environment, often with little or no facilities, that there is a self-perpetuating round of worklessness, gang culture and deprivation.

1. Some people on welfare may have a sense of entitlement (although I've never met anyone who has). But for everyone else the current benefit sign on procedures and sanctions routine is humiliating and kakfesque in complexity. 18 months ago DP signed on for the first time in his life (after being made redundant). He was entitled on the non-means based Jobseeker's allowance (based on his NI contributions) for 6 months. It took 5 weeks from his first visit to the job centre before he got a payment. It would have taken longer (about another month) had he not been able to apply online, which many people cannot do.

He subsequently got sanctioned for 2 weeks for not turning up to a job centre appointment - even though he was at a job interview which he had previously advised them of.

Luckily we had savings to fall back on. But I thought at the time, heaven help the people, especially parents, who didn't.

1. As for people "getting over" checks being made on them. I think the issue here is that the people making the assessments are not qualified to do it. They also make the assessment on the day you attend for the appointment. Many conditions can vary from day to day.

He subsequently got sanctioned for 2 weeks for not turning up to a job centre appointment - even though he was at a job interview which he had previously advised them of.

Yep - unbelievable really

The woman who was his "advisor" seemed to really have it in for him. Her attitude only changed once he told her that one of the steps he was taking to get back into work was to start a blog about his job centre experience, which he was hoping to circulate to the local press (he's an ex-journo). Suddenly she started being a lot more reasonable

Hillingdon. Right now you are doing fuck all to improve my view of the nasty party. Shit happens to good people. It really does. And if people aren't up to scratch in your opinion, then do you ask why?

And what 'benefits office' in a local authority does your boss' wife work in? Housing? Some people are entitled but spend five minutes on MN and you'll see that isn't limited to your 'undesirables'.

And actually why are you posting this goady twaddle on the defeated leftie thread?

FGS it is Katie Fuckpkins or some other troll. stop engaging with it

True swlboy

no, not a troll
I've just worked out exactly who Hillingdon is.

A poster who in RL has been extremely successful in her career. Unfortunately this has led to her world view being that everyone else can do the same because she managed it. Not taking into account that not everyone starts from the same point she did, had the same opportunities she did. That's not to diminish the work she must have put in to get where she is, her kind of career isn't just handed to you on a plate.

But she does believe that every one of us is able to get out there and command six figure salaries and all that is required is hard work. I'm not sure who would have to do the lesser paid work in that scenario though - the hospitality and retail trade, public transport workers, teachers etc.

She once advised me under another name how I should work to fund my kids' care whilst at work. Now bearing in mind I have three kids with multiple complex needs, two of which have unpredictable behaviour and sleep patterns it's extremely difficult to see how this might be achieved.

I have looked, I have tried, but you'd be looking at £30 per hour for specialist childcare, that is if you can find 3 places (unlikely). This childcare also couldn't attend the numerous medical and educational appointments required x3. I can't even earn more than £10 an hour.

So yeah, I'm not convinced that this poster is deliberately being inflammatory (although her posts are inflammatory, exceedingly so, and she has had me feeling suicidal when my MH was at its worst) she just has a very distorted world view through her own lens of life experience. She's not unique in that, and also not unique in her inability to empathise with other people.

But it's really not what you need when you just know your life is going to get harder, particularly after you've already weathered 5 tough years.

" he told her that one of the steps he was taking to get back into work was to start a blog about his job centre experience, which he was hoping to circulate to the local press (he's an ex-journo). Suddenly she started being a lot more reasonable"

Yeah Ill bet she was!!

Op, I'm a labour voter in Scotland, athough saying so may out me, as it seems I'm the only one..... I moved on from 'fuck' on Friday and I'm now reduced to muttering unintelligbly in the corner.

He subsequently got sanctioned for 2 weeks for not turning up to a job centre appointment - even though he was at a job interview which he had previously advised them of.

This happened to a relative if mine, the only differences being that his interviews had been arranged by the job centre at the same time as his signing on appointments. He was sanctioned for 6 weeks the first time and had nothing to live on. He managed to secure a hardship payment the first time which was 50% of his usual dole amount but had to be repaid from his benefits when the sanction was over. The second time it happened the job centre reassured him that he wouldn't be sanctioned for attending the interview but he was and he couldn't even get a hardship payment because he was still paying off the last one. He lost his flat as a result and ended up homeless- he is still homeless now.
The job centre deliberately clash appointments so that they can meet their targets on sanctions.

Bishop - I don't think Hillingdon is that person - but that person is on this thread spouting tedious ideological crap too. They could've been separated at birth.

Neither of them are doing anything to dispel the idea that the Tories aren't the party of the callous and the ignorant.