Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

[FineDamBeaver]

It's all just sinking in, and the other political threads are too eloquent for what I want to express this morning.

Oh tits. This is rubbish.

I don't think it's all down to sour grapes. I think many people are genuinely scared for their livelihoods and the wellbeing of their families.

If folks are already struggling, can you not see how a party with a reputation for being less than compassionate towards society's most vulnerable, taking power on the promise to make further cuts to welfare, might be terrifying to some?

If you think their fears are unfounded, why not explain exactly why, rather than making sweeping statements about how the less well off will be better off under the Tories? Point to specific policies and election promises that will help them.

Pressure on carers will increase and some of those carers will be children/teenagers.

Hang on.
I dont think Tories are "evil" (well, not all of them anyway!:))
But they differ from a lot of the population (only 36% voted for them remember) in that they feel they are protected from the visicitudes the rest of us face.
Can't pay a bill?
Use your savings or the bank of mummy and daddy.
Can't get decent timely medical care?
Go private.
Can't get your kids into a decent school?
Go private.
The vast majority of us do not have that cushion of protection or that level of choice.
It doesn't make them bad people. I dont envy well off folk, but I do resent it when they are talking about situations they cannot possibly understand.
My Dhs aunt has never paid a mortgage. Her pils bought and furnished her a house when she married.
She has never had to worry about money, or how to feed her child, or how to afford school uniform etc.
I would suggest a lot of people who voted tory on Thursday fall into the same category.
There are children at my sons school who go hungry in the holidays as they are not then provided with their FSM.
I cannot concieve of the sort of person that thinks that this is acceptable in the 21st century.

...and I think the swearing and genuine anger are due to fear.
Real fear that people will lose their homes, jobs and that their children will suffer.
I understand that.

Most Tory voters are not in the Badz category though. Only 8% of people can afford school fees and it was 50% who support the Tories and UKIP. In fact in my constituency it was 60% Tories alone.

Those who are fearful do not worry - work harder, get a second job like many of the rest of us do and all will be well. You are the master of your own fate. Make your own future.

Not really an option those of us with caring duties sadly
If only it were that easy....

Lots of husbands and wives share work and care though and do it by way of shifts or like those of us women who work full time with babies use most of our salary to pay for someone else to do the caring.

It seems as though broad sweeping daily mail esc generalisations are suddenly allowed from the left now the general population has produced a democratic result that hasn't gone in the way that the echoe chambers has predicted.

It's pathetic, scaremongering anecdotes are suddenly allowed, add a broad whitewashing of the previous 13 years of labour government and you can paint any alternate voter is suddenly hitler.

I voted conservative because of the economy, labour didn't cause the crash but I had to endure Gordon brown telling us that he had eliminated boom and bust and that we where all middle class now, now considering the past 5 years arguments have been based on kensian economics you would have though labour would have caught something in the pot to help that.

And if you think he didn't see it coming, then he surely didn't need to sell the gold to help Goldman Sachs and inevitably kick the can down the road did he.

Still, let's blame thatcher for all our ills in society.

You paint a lovely aspirational picture there Lotus.

Get lots of jobs, don't spend any time with your family, just lots of lovely low paid jobs, maybe a zero hour contract or two. Who's benefitting? Who knows. Not you! You can just work yourself into the ground trying to keep your head above water!

Those who are fearful do not worry - work harder, get a second job like many of the rest of us do and all will be well. You are the master of your own fate. Make your own future.

Oh Lotus, please tell me that is a pretty pathetic joke.

No-one can be that ignorant or blinkered, can they?

Sorry, but saying "get a second job and work harder" doesn't explain to me how vulnerable members of society will be better off under the Tories.

Amazing for some to think..... but every week women tell me I am a role model. I do think it's that mindset thing - if you think you can do anything if you just get out there, effect change, work very hard and work smart you can be amazing and achieve what you want to achieve. Or you can think there is no point and live in poverty. People can choose. This is one of the biggest differences between left and right. The right help people and the left ensure many people are left where they are and without hope. We now have a wonderful opportunity with 5 years of Tory rule to make things better for everyone using conservative principles which really work and the left need not fear this Government will not consider everyone.

Debunk the "scaremongering" anecdotes then! Explain to people why they don't need to be scared! Because dismissing them as "pathetic" does make you seem a bit like a stereotypical heartless Tory to be honest.

And this is why a lot of us hate Tories... or at least what they stand for.

If they are lucky enough to have good physical and mental health, the support of friends and family, money in the bank, a good education, whatever the case may be... they still believe their 'good fortune' is entirely down to their own intelligence, hard work, diligence and fortitude... rather than considering that maybe, just maybe, they were also bloody lucky to have surrounding them a set of circumstances which allowed them to capitalise on their own strengths and gifts.

So anyone who struggles is feckless or lazy and should get up off their arse to take on that second job and that will make everything okay.

Yes, fine, if you are able to find a second job, one that pays above minimum wage, not a zero hours contract, not one that is a 2 hour bus ride away, you have someone to take care of the kids after school, you have the physical and mental resilience to take on a 16 hour day, etc, etc...

FWIW I have done it, a full time position with both study and a part-time job in the evenings. But I don't pat myself on the back and think how wonderful I was, rather I thank my lucky stars that I was healthy and fit enough to do this and that I was able o achieve a qualification at the end of it.

Not so easy for everyone though.

We now have a wonderful opportunity with 5 years of Tory rule to make things better for everyone using conservative principles which really work and the left need not fear this Government will not consider everyone.

And yes, for the hundredth time, please tell us just how the Tories plan to do this...

Incidently, why do women call you a role model? What exactly do you do?

Yes, where would David Cameron have been if he hadn't been born into a wealthy family and gone to Eton then Oxford?

He might have done well for himself, because he's supposed to be very clever, but having a silver spoon in his mouth definitely helped him.

Vulnerable is a catch all phase that the left like to use. There are the truly vulnerable and there are the people who know exactly what they are entitled to, what they need to do to avoid work and to hold on to those lovely benefits. Well surprise surprise people are fed up of this.

Of people who think that if they rely totally on benefits through choosing not to work is a badge to show proudly. Who will work cash in hand to get those 'extras'. After all they are 'entitled'.

Wake up - if those swinging the lead are found out there will be more for the vulnerable not those who make crap decisions and choose some feckless no mark to have a baby with.

Living in the USA has made me cynical about the rhetoric you spout Lotus. A minimal welfare state, the "American Dream" of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps without the hinderance of a rigid class system, and yet so many are working multiple, minimum wage jobs a struggling to keep their heads above water. In the state where I live, 1 in 6 people are "food insecure" (struggle to feed themselves / their family with out food stamps and/or a food bank). The USA sits below "socialist" Scandinavian countries for almost every measure of health, education and general well being.

I don't know why I'm bothering typing this really....

The "Left" don't believe in being unemployed and having babies with unsuitable partners.

Do you really think that whole swathes of people enjoy being poor?

I am on the "Left", never claimed a benefit in my life, always worked, don't have millions of kids, just the one, won't have more because I can't afford any more.

I am not in the minority. I am the majority.

LotusLight, I don't recognise your username but style and content sounds very familiar, have you used other names on Mumsnet?

I was born into a family where my mother became a single parent,
I went to a rubbish sec modern school where there were no aspirations for anyone.

I didn't want this for my children. I had a zero hours contract (called temping in my day). Didn't like them and stayed in London where the jobs are. Now many years later we are comfortably off. My son goes to a similar school to Cameron. He absolutely knows this is not the norm. He got a job last summer. Admin type role during school holidays. A young lad started a few weeks later - lasted a day and these are not difficult roles believe me. Thinking answering the phone, filing, making tea. This lad walked out saying he couldn't get his head around the role. If my son had come bleating this nonsense I would have said leave if you like but not before you have something else.

This is what we are up against with the 'entitled' people who think the state owes them...

yy MrsFrumble.

Sadly the Left believe in supporting the vunerable (which is a catch all for anyone from the genuinely disabled who I think should get everything going to the stupid, feckless and entitled who know exactly how to play the system).

Labour are finished. They will probably elect Andy Burnham or if really silly Yvette Cooper and lose again..

So what's your solution then Hillingdon?

Removing all welfare?

Yes Hillingdon what do you think should be done? Perhaps you think workhouses are a good idea?