Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

[FineDamBeaver]

It's all just sinking in, and the other political threads are too eloquent for what I want to express this morning.

Oh tits. This is rubbish.

I think most of us know how deeply held the political views of Tory and Labour voters are and most of us respect the views of the others even though we know they are wrong. We also understand how upset some people are feeling (and how elated some of us of course are also feeling) and what the country now needs is to settle down with it's SNP votes and it's UKIP voters who exceeded the SNP voters and all those people who did not vote as they are not happy with the system and try to unite the country under 5 years of stable rule as we try to do what Labour planned too - get us out of the massive hole of one of the biggest deficits in the world.

Labour lost because of the staggering ineptitude of their campaign. With the Tory cuts causing riots a few years ago, it should have been easy to pick up the marginal red/blue seats. But they completely failed to capitalise.

That said, most parties in opposition have been completely incompetent at presenting themselves to the electorate for decades. See Kinnock against Thatcher and in particular failing to take advantage of the disunity of Major's administration, and Howard still unelectable despite the hatred of Blair's Iraq wars. I'll exclude Hague because he was never going to make headway against the euphoria of New Labour as Blair hadn't shown his true colours then.

The only competent opposition campaigns have been Smith / Blair and Cameron. Cameron faced a harder task than Miliband this time. The Tories winning an overall majority is an utter failure on the part of Miliband, who will surely go down as one of their worst ever leaders.

It's time for a serious and frank discussion about why we do not get elected.

1. Ed Miliband is a clever, decent man but comes across as bungling twit.
2. His refusal to accept that they overspent in a public Q &A session with a voter.
3. The spectre of Sturgeon pulling his strings.
4. The spectre of the Unions pulling his strings.
5. Ed Balls. His own constituents din't even want him as an M.P.
6. Fear of the unknown Vs Better the devil you know.
7. Most of the electorate having the economy and loe unemployment as a key priority and Labour nore acknowledging that.

There are more but Labour needs to address those first.

Selfish - I agree with every aspect of that post. Better the devil you know certainly does factor in many people's reasoning. That's why Labour got in again after the illegal war.

We seem to be drifting towards a more American style of election. So whichever leader can field a few questions and is charismatic. Style really does seem to win out over substance.

Definitely. I find David Cameron a massive hypocrite. I don't see how many people identify with him on any level at all.

Where is Xenia these days? She always used to be on these threads saying there should be a benefit cap of 10k.

Read the post chockbic rather than being obtuse.

It is nothing to do with charisma. He refused to accept Labour had overspent, in a public interview. The audience gasped . This damaged him.
Add this to all the other reasons - some listed in my post - and you will see why labour lost so dramatically.

Now , Labourites can accept this, digest it and tackle it. Or stick their heads back in the sand.

I've read the posts and that's my opinion.

I think Paxo nailed it when he said the electorate see him as a geek.

I'd like to see the Tories finally address the universal benefits issue with regard to pensioners, many of whom do not need what they receive.

A simple move would be to make the winter fuel allowance and Christmas bonus taxable. That would at least ensure that those pensioners who only have a state pension to rely on would at least get the benefit.

How is he a hypocrite?

I'll tell you what hypocrisy is - it's a Labour leader setting a mansion tax just above the value of their own home. It's a Labour leader avoiding IHT and it's Labour MPs using private education . It's a Labour luvvie doing a PP broadcast after helping his wife declare bankruptcy rather than pay a 6 fig tax bill and then educating your kids privately. It's some washed up, dirty actor sitting on multi millions of pounds whilst being involved in a legal tax dodge telling people how to vote. It's a shadow chancellor flipping his homes three times to benefit as much as possible from expenses.

Maybe, just maybe , the great British public is rather less thick, naive and stupid than you would like them to be.

He's a hypocrite because he waxes lyrical about how he understands the challenges faced by families who have to care for disabled family members while simultaneously screwing the NHS. The message is clear. Those who can't afford private health care are unimportant. And yet,I suspect there are very few families who don't use the NHS. It's just that when you have a severely disabled child like I do, you're more aware of what would happen if the NHS wasn't available any more.

I think Labour lost because the majority of the English don't believe in any vaguely left policies (amongst other reasons) but this shines through looking at the voting pattern.

It's some washed up, dirty actor sitting on multi millions of pounds whilst being involved in a legal tax dodge telling people how to vote

Who is this, please? I genuinely have no idea.

sefishcunt you really love this thread don't you. Ah well, to the victor, the spoils. Enjoy it.

Vind - Russell Brand

Cameron used the NHS for his disabled son when it provided things that the private sector didn't. Don't forget that - the private sector likes to cherry pick the things it can make money on.

83% of voters live in England, let us not forget. The minority tail must not wag the dog whether it be SNP, Labour or UKIP.

I certainly agree with this point made above

"Most of the electorate having the economy and loe unemployment as a key priority ".

Labour and the Tories both thought we could all be bought out with promises of cash whereas the populace are grown up and want a Government spending what it can afford. We are much more sensible than the various parties took us for, hence the Tory win.

So if he used it himself then he's even more of an hypocrite.

It's not a good thing to have people relying too much on benefits. It causes resentment to not well of people who don't get benefits but are expected to pay inicome tax. And really why shouldn't ex partners pay to support their families. If it's not their responsibility why is it the taxpayers.

Vivienne in a fluffy little world where everyone lives like the elderly spinster on their way to Evensong I daresay they would.
Back in the real world people are vindictive and selfish and yes partners piss off and do everything they can to avoid paying. So do you just say fuck it and let those children fall? Or do you try to help them?
If you have some magic way of forcing parents to pay when they try not to then let's hear it.

In fact Vivienne if you have a magic wand to make creditors pay any sort of debt when they don't want to you had better patent it, it will make you very rich.

Oh..please!
Do you really think that the Tories will take away anything from the grey vote!!?
It doesn't matter that they don't need their winter fuel allowance, or bus pass, it matters that they vote
It'll be interesting though.
The older generation (you know, the ones who had free uni ed, final salary pensions and a decent nhs?) are statistically more likely to need nhs care than the younger generation.
Let's see how they feel trying to access out of hours care, or physio, or God forbid, palliative care.
Or if they become disabled due to stroke, or accident?
But if course, that won't happen the them will it?

Do you really think that the Tories will take away anything from the grey vote!!?

No, I don't, but yes, I think they should start to consider it or means test them. And yes, I would be voting against my own interests, being just of that age myself. Rather that, than taking from the sick and disabled.

I agree with you.
I think all benefits should be means tested.
But it won't happen.

Geriatric care in the NHS is very poor.