Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

[FineDamBeaver]

It's all just sinking in, and the other political threads are too eloquent for what I want to express this morning.

Oh tits. This is rubbish.

Agreed, Cupid. I was simply making the point that a fairer voting system would still have delivered a (to me) obnoxious result.

The Tories "economic miracle" is creating an asset bubble in housing which means most young people will be renting forever whilst people who bought their houses for nothing years ago will become rich without having to lift a finger. Likewise, there will be lots of housing benefit flowing out of the country into the pockets of rich foreign landlords, never to be seen again.

The sure start toddler group locally has gone from an open group to a closed "invite only" group. I was told there wasn't funding to keep it an open group. (thankfully mine are too old for them now, but that doesn't help those in the area that might need it)

I'm a surestart volunteer Alice. They're being hit massively and are now heavily reliant on people like me to keep more and more services open in the absence of trained staff. It's a sad state of affairs.

On that we definitely agree grovel. It just keeps digging in my side that if we weren't to have a government that I could get behind, it should have at the very least been a government that truly represent the nation.

Cupid I'm not blaming sure start (although I think "by invite only" is an appalling way to deal with it), I blame the pulling of funding by the government.

Now they're back in.. I'd like to see the Tories finally address the universal benefits issue with regard to pensioners, many of whom do not need what they receive. The grey vote have a lot to answer for.

So do I Alice. It's one of the reasons I'm so devastated today. The team of volunteers I work with are stretched enough as it is and the community we're in rely heavily on the surestart centres.

Morage history is important though. I think david blunkett is right that labour lost the election in part when they failed to debunk the myth that they were responsible for the financial crash and economic slowdown of 2008-10.

In the same way, labour took 20+ years to recover from the "winter of discontent", and even then only managed it by moving sharply to the right under T Blair. They were not responsible for the winter of discontent etc but it entered into popular legend as their "fault"... "Beer, sandwiches etc etc"

In the same way, our grandchildren will be talking about how labour was responsible for the 2008 economic crisis.

This is what makes parties unelectable over the long term.

If parties don't learn from their mistakes, they repeat them.

CPtart

The grey vote have a lot to answer for.

At what age does it become improper to consider your own interests in deciding how to vote?

My mil is a staunch labour voter.
My mother spent lots of time in a psychiatric ward in the 1980's, the care was good.
DP works with people with MH disorders, he says it is shockingly bad since coalition took power.

I work with young people with MH disorders, in the last 5 years we have lost about half the service in cuts, it all ready feels like we have been cut to the bone, I dread to think what awaits our young people with MH difficulties with this administration ( and the irony is that as a result of the wider welfare cuts the need for our service has rocketed, referrals to our service have increased tenfold).

Well except from the 50% for SNP in Scotland - that's a mandate

Right Body I'm back. I've spared lots of boring figures for you and just gone for the shortest explanation I can type (it's still long)
Labour returned 30% of the vote. The swing this election was +1.4%. This is higher than the swing for the Tories which was +0.8%.

So let's think about how Labour could have gained votes but ultimately lost the election.

We gained votes in areas we were strong in. We did not gain votes in the marginals. This was key for Labour.

SNP gained 50 seats. Labour seats. Scotland voted for a socialist government. Labour could not deliver that to Scotland and they knew it. They voted with their principles and good on them.

For Labour to win now, we needed to pick up the seats from the Libdem massacre. We did not. Tories picked them up. We also didn't make enough headway in London. Why? I feel that Labour didn't engage the middle classes enough. A sense of mistrust over the economy, a feeling that Labour is "too left", "for the working classes" "full of ideology". England is inherently right wing and these voters swung that way rather than to the Left. It was these voters that got Blair elected.

Labour is left in the position that in order to become electable in a right wing country, we need to become just that. That's why Blair succeeded.

However, this time round, the party shifted slightly back to "Old Labour" ideologies and principles slightly. That's why the feeling on the ground was positive, that's why the exit polls confounded Labour. Labour supporters and members felt like we had our principles back. That we could vote with a clear conscience this time round. It gave a false impression of Labour confidence.

It's also what turned prospective Libdem voters into Tories and lost us the election.

The UKIP effect, well, they took a surprising percentage of the votes but only returned one seat. The UKIP vote was too think spread and ultimately was not a large contributing factor, IMO anyway.

I also have a whole other rant about why this country needs a unified Left now. But that's not for this thread

Fence
I generally agree with your analysis but not your solution. The UK needs federalism now. Or the Union is finished. And it needs to happen before am EU referendum, as Scotland WILL vote to stay. And prob Wales and NI too.

Well the solution needs a lot of thought tbh.

I don't think my brain has engaged enough yet to fully state my opinions on our future eloquently enough.

I am dreading an EU referendum now.

Andrewfogg- it's never improper to consider your own interests when deciding how to vote.
The facts remain however, that many many pensioners receive benefits that they do not need. With less in the pot for those that do.

I was shocked at the result. I'm a No voter who did not vote SNP yesterday. The only crumb of comfort is that NS was unable to play the role of kingmaker she so clearly wanted.

Fence is right about what Labour needs to do (not that I want them to do it as I'm a right wing free market libertarian!). Someone on the radio today from Labour was making the same point. Lots of middle earners in England (where to be fair most people in the UK are - 84% of people are in England) were not enamoured of Labour policies.

I didn't hear that on the radio today (I have been too busy enjoying my pity party haha) but I'm glad someone is thinking along the same lines. To me, the results speak for themselves.

Although I definitely don't agree with going back to our soft right Blair days.

I need to have a good think about how we engage those ex-Libdem voters and I'm not sure of a real solution yet.

Not that I have any massive influence of course. More trying to form a personal opinion in my own head.

I think david blunkett is right that labour lost the election in part when they failed to debunk the myth that they were responsible for the financial crash and economic slowdown of 2008-10
That's because it wasn't a myth. Of course there was an international crisis, but Gordon Brown was an economic disaster. He raided pension funds. He sold off our gold reserves at the lowest possible price. He kept borrowing to spend, long after it was sensible to do so.
I think a lot of people were worried that Ed Balls would have done the same things again - except selling that gold that we don't have any more.

Sallyingforth, government borrowing has been greater in the last 5 years than it was during the entire period the Labour party were in power.

And starting the new government's work on an encouraging note: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-it-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

Feck. Yet more shit, crap, bollocks, bastards. Feck.

Well at least my Best friends will be happy tonight, I however need wine. The voters have spoken, just a shame so few turn out to vote. I have a friend on fb moaning away yet in her words she couldn't be bothered to vote because it was 'too much effort' to go to thr polls.