Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

[FineDamBeaver]

It's all just sinking in, and the other political threads are too eloquent for what I want to express this morning.

Oh tits. This is rubbish.

Body later when I have a chance I will give you the breakdown of the votes and where the Labour lost and the reasons why I think we lost, if you are interested.

Yes democracy has worked. England (note England) wanted a right wing government. So they have one now.

For me, there must always be other alternatives to the Tory approach. Other countries have lot of policies similar to Labour and are thriving.

Anyway I don't have much time now. But if sensible, well-thought out debate is what you're after then that can happen.

However sometimes it's OK to let people lick their wounds.

This it's ok re the figures as these are simply public record but yes totally interested in any views on why labour lost and what they need to do to be trusted and electable again.

My guy feeling is time and new faces.

That generally works.

By all means lick away.

Maybe mental health services were not better, but some services were.

children's mental health services were as bad under labour.

yes, but the Cons have had FIVE years to improve this and havent bothered, instead they just go on and on about the previous govs mess and no bother clearing it up and leaving it to the next lot.

btw glad HQ is letting us all vent, talk guidelines out of the window today!!!!

In the 70s the waiting lists were huge under both parties.

There's a hell of a lot of rose tinted specs on this thread over labour.

I remember the winter of discontent which was far far harder for people than things are now. Sorry but life was tougher then.

High unemployment, high taxes, dreadful public services, endless strikes and inflation so bad food prices rocketed.

All under a labour government.

I'm so irrational about it, I'm even thinking, bring on a fucking EU referendum and we can serve these stupid people right and show them how stupid they are by all voting to take Britain out of the EU and into the economic fucking wilderness. That will show them ... (Hmmm)

We will stay in the EU.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

...And many, many people had a shit time during the 1980s under Thatcher.

It's not about what happened 30 or 40 years ago. It's about who is going to provide the most protection and best services to vulnerable members of society. Lots of people posting here feel that, based on their own experiences over the past 5 years, it's not going to be the Tories. It seems fair enough that they can do so without being dismissed, does it not?

Bodyinpyjamas it's not that straightforward though is it. Wilson inherited a catastrophic balance of payments deficit from Macmillan. In those days, they just handed over the treasury figures on day one, which came as a massive surprise and caused many tears, rending of garments etc. Admittedly Wilson was a bit crap and maybe shouldn't have devalued the pound when he did, but interestingly, the whole incumbent 1970s "blame the unions" narrative is not dissimilar to the "blame labour for the international banking crisis of 2007" narrative.

What matters isn't so much what actually happens and whose really to blame, but how history tells it, and in this country, with the virulently anti-Wilson press, he was unsurprisingly crucified. And I too was around in the 70s - albeit in secondary school!

I fully recognise that I'm not being very gracious in defeat today, I might manage it in a few days, until then I've hidden any Tory friends on my fb and am very happy for them to do the same to me.
I don't believe mental health services were worse 10 years ago. In my families experience they were about a million times better than now.
Neil kinnock's warning been ringing in my ears today. Genuinely frightened of this lot without the lib dems to reign them in.

I don't care what happened in the 70's. That was 40 bloody years ago. I care about what is happening now.
And the reality is the NHS is worse now than it was under Labour. Cuts have been made to services and financial support for disabled people. These are all realities that affect a fair number of us on MN.

And another thing... When I had my children there were sure start centres to go to with free toddler groups and health visitors on site. People with little money had opportunities to take their baby out, get advice, have a chat. Now - they've all closed. 23 out of 25 nearest ones gone. And the library has closed. If you haven't got the money for jo jingles or whatever (or you're a young mum who finds those too judgy), you're on your own.

Didn't realise mns had no common sense ? Tory had to win and thank god they did

"And the reality is the NHS is worse now than it was under Labour."

You taken a look at the NHS in Wales recently? Under Labour control?

Overwhelming sense of 'fuck' here too.

And to the Tory voters on this thread, I respect how you voted. We live in a democracy (supposedly, though I'm arguing about representation elsewhere) so your vote is as valid as mine. But please take a step back and understand, only around 37% of voters voted Conservative. The other 63% voted for opposing parties. And that 37% is likely to translate to a whole lot less Tory support when applied to the whole of the UK, perhaps even less than a quarter. The other 3/4 are allowed to feel disdain about a party coming into power that they very much don't want. And many are more are far from happy that some parties are now woefully unrepresented in comparison to the number of votes they received.

37% voted Tory..... That's more than any of the others total percentage :-)

If you ignore the past you fuck up the future.

And yes that her years were shit/good equal measure for most of us.

The problem, Cupid, is that Tories + UKIP get to 50%.

37% voted Tory..... That's more than any of the others total percentage :-)

clam - I am a heavy user of the NHS in England. I know from my own experience it is worse in England.

Yes grovel, but at least it would be representative of the voters.

2boys, they did get the highest percentage of the parties. But 63% voted against it. That 63% are allowed to feel the way they do. Tories got a majority of seats but certainly not a majority of votes.

60% didn't want labour in 2005 that's just how it works