about SIL breastfeeding issue? Wedding related!

[SilverSalmon]

I'm getting married in 5 weeks and there'll be 6 children at the wedding - 2 small babies and 4 toddlers. Next to the room where we're getting married is another room they use for smaller ceremonies, I asked if they could leave the door open for this in case people need to take out crying/tantrumming children (including my own 4yo DS!). They've agreed and will put sofas and a toy box in the room.

We were at my OH's parents at the weekend and his DB and wife were there. They are bringing their 2 children, our niece (4 months) and nephew (3yo) to the wedding. I told her about the room and said that I can get them sat near it just in case they need to pop out and settle or feed them (she's breastfeeding both). She said that if they need to feed she can just pull her dress down as its low cut, but I said she'll probably be more comfortable in the room as the seats are squahsed close together and may incur a lot of faffing. I've said the same to my cousin who is bring her 2 month old, who is bottle fed (and told SIL-to-be this).

Can I state at this point I'm very pro-breastfeeding, i breastfed DS until he was 2 years old, often in public, and would never ever adopy a 'there's a time and a place' attitude - however having breastfed a child of varying ages I know what a faff it can be especially when they're across your lap when someone is right next to you, so I gave the room idea as I thought it would be more comfortable for them and the children.

This morning OH has received the following email from his DB (names changed obviously):

Hi DB
Laura (SIL-to-be) and I have been discussing the issue of breastfeeding at your wedding and the fact she's been asked to go into another room if she needs to feed during the ceremony. I have to say I'm disappointed in you both as I thought you were pro-breastfeeding. Laura feels very vicitimised by this and we suspect it's because other guests may feel uncomfortable. In which case that's their issue, if they are offended by breasts being used for their natural function then they are welcome to turn their heads. Or, if it's like SilverSalmon says, and it's just for our comfort, we believe it would be easier to just get the children latched on rather than make the fuss of getting up and leaving the room.

I think it may be a good time to also mention that, as you know, Laura tandem feeds and because DS is still feeding when she latches DD on he usually comes up asking for some too. Meaning that it's highly likely that she'll need to tandem feed at various points during the day. We're happy with this and she has chosen a tandem-feeding friendly dress for this reason. Laura is not prepared to be shoved into a side room like she's doing something sordid, she wants to be part of the day too. So wether it be during the ceremony, dinner, speeches etc, she will need to tandem feed and is not prepared to leave the room to do it. I have to put the comfort and needs of my wife and children first. If you're not happy with this arrangement I'm afraid we won't be able to come - I'm not having any of us penalised because of our feeding choices. None of us would enjoy a day where the children and Laura are constantly seperate from me and the feeding is non-negotiable. It's up to you 2 but can you let us know asap and then we do things like cancel the hotel room and return our outfits. I hope you understand our point of view, I don't want to fall out with you but I didn't think breastfeeding would be such an issue!"

So mumsnet AIBU to be upset about this? I genuinely thought I was being helpful when I offered a side room for the ceremony. Help!

I find it all a bit confusing OP.

You are pro breastfeeding until they naturally wean themselves (you did the same with your DD) but you don't want SIL to feed her toddler at your wedding at all for fear of upsetting other people?

The ceremony is only 20 minutes so I imagine with a bit of timing she could end up feeding neither child so job done.

From your first post I thought you were having a Catholic very long ceremony? Not a 20 minute civil do. Which begs the question as to why you have gone to all the trouble re: the side room for "discrete feeding"?? Seems way OTT for a 20 minute do. Even with a teeny, weeny newborn most parents could keep them quiet for that amount of time?

I don't get it?? Am I missing something?

She only offered the room for her SILs comfort.

The side room is primarily for children to keep them entertained in case they get bored or fidgety.

I've breastfed for over 7 years (4 DC) and I reckon I've shown more breasts whilst out clubbing than during feeding. Faffing about with shawls only draws more attention to yourself, IMO. I tried for about 2 weeks with my first and she either objected to it suddenly being dark or the whole bloody thing would slither to the ground.

If the alternative was a screaming baby if necessary I would breastfeed a tiny baby in public in all of the scenarios that you've mentioned Middleaged.
In fact the whole idea of feeding "in public" is redundant. If they're little and they're hungry then of course they should be fed. The 3 year old I wouldn't though.

You are not being unreasonable to be honest, I can understand the need to breastfeed her young baby on demand, but a three year old, that's ridiculous. I breastfed all of my children up to the age of 2 but I wouldn't be happy if sat at a wedding the women besides me got her breasts out to latch on a fully grown toddler. To me they just sound like martyrs, ie oh look at me I'm still breastfeeding both my children and they just want attention. You are not being ureasonable to ask her to use the room next door if we children need feeding, who would want to be sat next to a woman tandem feeding with one child being a full grown toddler.

Which bit would be attention seeking during a wedding ceremony? Not draping a massive shawl over yourself? Fumbling in bag to grab a cloth? Muttering "if this doesn't work you take him for a bit" to husband?

Seriously. Because I've got a wedding coming up myself where I'll be a bridesmaid with a breastfed 18-month-old, and while I don't plan to feed her during the ceremony, threads like this make me pretty bloody miserable thinking about all the hoops I apparently have to jump through to avoid seeming like one of Those Breastfeeders in the rest of the day.

(I'm sure DD would love a shawl, though. She's excellent at peekaboo.)

OK, late to the party but my 3yo breastfed until 3y2m when her sister was born... From 2y we did don't offer, don't refuse and from 2y6m we stuck to morning and bedtime only. No public feeding... Even if we did, she was old enough to be told to wait...

I think the point is this Laura is determined to make some point and all about her...

I didn't know my daughter was going to wean cold turkey when her sister was born. So during pregnancy I prepared her and told her sister would take priority as she can only eat milk and can't have chocolate or spaghetti... And a 3yo is old enough to understand that, in my opinion...

Ha yes - peekaboo is what would happen if I tried to put something over DS's head!

I went to a wedding with DD when she was only a few months old (my first) and completely forgot when I was buying the dress that I has to get something suitable for breast feeding. It was high necked and zipped down the back. I literally had to undress to feed her. Poor soul was fed in the loo for the duration of the wedding.

"Still can't see why leedy and seff keep generalising that this is about all bf mothers. I have rtft. I have bf. Most of my friends did. I see pro bf in all my social circles."

For the umpteenth time, I am not saying that the ins and outs of this particular story are about all BF mothers, I am saying that some of the remarks being made in this thread are applicable to/insulting to all BF mothers. It's entirely possible to express the opinion that the OP's SIL is being a bit ridiculous/up herself without making horrified/"funny" reference to "not wanting to look down and see a child swinging off someone's tit", Little Britain/shouting "bitty!", still feeding when they're a teenager, assuming all natural term BF mums are "anti-vaxx attention-seeking farty vegans", "no child of that age should be BF, they need proper food instead" etc. etc. As I said upthread, it's a bit like someone doing an AIBU about their really annoying auntie and her girlfriend and people weighing in with their "amusing" thoughts that all lesbians are weirdo perverts or "have you found out which one is the man".

I believe attention-seeking breastfeeding involves having a giant neon sign over head declaring "LOOK! BOOBS IN USE!".

Also for the PP wondering "how you feed a 3 year old", there's a pic of me upthread feeding a 2.5 year old - he's just across my lap like he's always been, he just takes up a lot more of it.

" who would want to be sat next to a woman tandem feeding with one child being a full grown toddler"

I genuinely wouldn't care, personally.

Am a bit bemused/slightly saddened by the mums here who BF toddlers but "wouldn't do it in public", "had to think of others", "nobody wants to see that" etc. It's not going to be normalized if we keep hiding it away for fear of upsetting people.

As I said upthread, my own toddler would and can wait for a feed, but my main consideration as to when he should do so is whether I want to feed him then (and sometimes I don't), rather than whether it might scandalize those around us. Also, again as I said upthread, generally people don't seem to notice or pass remarks anyway.

But does anyone want to normalise breastfeeding toddlers?
I don't.

^ I don't as well.

Crikey, I've bf four kids including in some unorthodox places (not all at once, obv), but the idea of even being able to procure a dress to accommodate tandem bf, let alone whipping both baps out at a wedding to accomplish that, would be beyond my organisational capabilities. Good luck to her and I hope she sends a selfie of it to Nigel Farage.

"But does anyone want to normalise breastfeeding toddlers?"

Well, yeah. Why not? Why should it stay "weird and icky"? Why should people's "not liking to look at it, ewwwww" get social approval (while, say, announcing you didn't like looking at gay people holding hands would get you massive disapproval, and rightly so). What terrible things will happen if it becomes more common in public? I don't get the revulsion, I really don't. I didn't set out to feed toddlers, I just started breastfeeding and didn't stop. When I look down at DS2 feeding, he's still such a baby in so many ways, and it's something that gives him immense comfort (plus v handy rehydration if he's sick). I know from DS1 that he'll give up eventually, probably quite soon, but I'm not going to rush him just because people think he shouldn't be doing it and I should be shamed out of it by people making sure it's "not normalized".

In response to the posters re staring; Phil out of Eastenders once stared at me when I was bfing in a pub in Primrose Hill.

So why shouldn't 10 year olds still be breast fed then, or 20 year olds?

From your first post I thought you were having a Catholic very long ceremony? Not a 20 minute civil do. Which begs the question as to why you have gone to all the trouble re: the side room for "discrete feeding"?? Seems way OTT for a 20 minute do.

I didn't ask her to feed discreetly. Read the post, its offered to ALL parents. and sorry but 20 minutes is a long time for toddlers and I will have 4 of them plus 2 teeny babies at the wedding. I've been there, and it's so awkward and disruptive when they start to play up, more than once I've had to stand in the hall missing my loved ones get married because DS was bored/upset/whingey etc. So I thought the side room was a nice compromise - far enough away to bribe them with toys calm the kids down but still in sight of the ceremony (well sort of) as door will be left open. Pardon me for trying to be helpful. I am also considering milky buttons being put in there but I fear if I do this mumsnet will implode

And I agree with so much of what leedy says BTW. And if you don't want to normalise toddler feeding then fair enough but it seems some people on this thread are going out their way to demonize it and make those who do it sound like total freaks.

"I think the 'swinging on tit' and bitty posts were the minority . Yes you've clearly taken offence , but most of the posts have been totally reasonable and said the same thing, that the ils are rude"

A lot of the posts have been completely reasonable, but there's been a persistent thread of nasty remarks about toddler feeding in general, and it hasn't been just one or two posts. The OP herself has identified it and said she found it distressing and wanted people to stop. You're the one who keeps posting about how "nobody could be remotely upset by anything we're saying here".

Just look upthread. "Does anyone want to normalize breastfeeding toddlers? I don't". IE "fuck you, weirdo, I want people to still think you're a freak, god forbid people should think what you do is normal, stay ashamed". If you can't see how that's upsetting, I really don't think there's anything more I can say. And pardon me if I'm defensive, that's how I get when people tell me that part of my perfectly natural relationship with my still-pretty-tiny, adorable, funny child is laughable and abnormal.

"So why shouldn't 10 year olds still be breast fed then, or 20 year olds?"

Well, apart from anything else, because they can't. Humans aren't designed to breastfeed much beyond losing their milk teeth. The jaw shape changes too much, they can't latch on. Just because you don't stop feeding in tiny infancy doesn't mean the whole system is meant to go on forever. Hence the whole terminology of "natural term breastfeeding", ie feeding until the child loses interest/can't do it anymore - my DS1 just stopped asking for it around 2.5. Suspect his brother will go for longer, mind.

Here here leedy .
tbh I used to think breastfeeding toddlers was a bit odd until I had my last dd who is currently attached to my boob. However, I have had so many judgy comments from inlaws that I feel uncomfortable feeding in their presence. Sil is the worst and has actually said I do it for my benefit. Well actually no, I do it for the whole families benefit including your owzy brother who feels his sleep is more important than mine. Plus I wonder whose benefit the dummy she uses as soon as her dd cries is for?
o and dd feeds sat on a seat next to meband doesn't kick out.

That's right, Heels99 - if we don't shame women who breastfeed toddlers, there'll be 20-year-olds out there being breastfed next!

In the same way that toddlers in nappies means 20-year-olds won't ever be toilet trained. Or toddlers watching CBeebies means that 20-year-olds will never graduate to grown-up TV. Or toddlers sleeping in cots means 20-year-olds won't sleep in real beds.

So why shouldn't 10 year olds still be breast fed then, or 20 year olds? Because its physically impossible.

BTW I'd like to thank the contributors who have had me sniggering at my desk the last 2 days, bizarre toddler feeding debate aside it's been a riot on this thread!

Silver salmon have you replied to the original email from bil?