DB/SIL- AIBU? need some perspective

[jacks11]

I have something of a fraught relationship with my DB, don't really know SIL all that well but we don't get on particularly well. There is a lot of back story to my relationship with DB, but a lot of it is related to his behaviour towards me (and my parents) in his mid-teens and early twenties (alcohol and drug related, but also a lot of deceit and aggression). I find SIL very odd- no motivation to do anything with her life but always moaning that she isn't happy where they live/with her job etc. Whenever she's been to visit me or my parents, she has been quite stand-offish and has to be coaxed into being pleasant.

It was my dad's 65th birthday today and we had organised a bit of a birthday do for family and close friends, at my parent's house. My gran (dad's DM) was being brought by one of my aunts, it's a bit of a drive and she is quite frail so the plan was always that she'd only be staying for a few hours and then she go home. She doesn't like staying away from home or she could have stayed the night. Dad has had a serious illness recently and so he hasn't seen as much of his mum as would normally be the case.

The plan was for me to pick up my brother, SIL and 2 nephews to take them to my parents for the party and drive them back down on Monday (I have to drive that way on Monday for a conference, so it's only a bit out of they way). They don't have a car, and apparently can't get the train for various reasons. I agreed to this as a favour to my parents. It's a 2 and a bit hour journey each way. I arranged to pick brother and nephews up at 11am this morning. SIL was being picked up from work about 11:30.

Just before I was due to arrive, my brother phoned me to say they had left the car seats at his PIL so I had to divert to their house (1/2 across town from my brothers). When I got to my brother's house, they still weren't ready. 15 minutes later my brother announced he needed to go to the supermarket (4 streets away) as they needed nappies for my youngest nephew and needed to get something for Dad's birthday as they hadn't managed to get round to doing this yet. Agreed to this, but was a bit cross tbh. Then went to pick up SIL, who then said "oh, can I take in [youngest nephew] to see my work colleagues?". I said that I'd prefer it if they did it another time as we were running late. She sort of huffed and said she needed to take him in to change his nappy but would be back quickly. Queue 20 minutes later, still not back. Brother went in to see what was wrong- she was busy showing him off to her colleagues after all. I was quite cross, and it was probably obvious- we were now running over an hour late. Half way through the journey, oldest nephew and SIL decide they are hungry and need to stop to get something- neither of them had thought to bring something to eat for the journey apparently. So now we were running really late.

Eventually arrive, late for food and have also managed to miss most of gran's visit, which I had been looking forward to. She was disappointed too- and also sad that she hadn't seen much of my nephews, as she doesn't see them often. Brother proceeds to stuff himself on the food, leaving little for me as I had been trying to get things sorted. I pointed this out and he just shrugged and said "oops". SIL sat with "a face like fizz" and moped. She also spent much of the afternoon sniping about various things (e.g. she thinks all children who go to private school are brats- my DD goes to one). They also started talking about the unfairness of my late grandmother's will- she left a significant amount of money to me and money in trust for DD'e education but didn't leave anything to them for various reasons. Then started talking about putting "dibs" in on various things belonging to my parents now. Not in dad's hearing, but mum did have to point out that it was my brother's own fault that things turned out this way and it wasn't appropriate to discuss it at this time.

I was really annoyed about this conversation and being messed around- I said so to my brother who thought I was over-reacting. He thought the stuff about mum and dad's stuff was a joke (if it was, I didn't think it was funny). We had a bit of a fight after everyone else had gone and I said they could make their own way home on Monday, as I wasn't putting myself out for 2 rude, ungrateful people. I'd take them to the nearest train station, but they could sort themselves out from there. Brother says they can't afford the train tickets, I said they should have thought of that before being so rude (not that they even offered to contribute to my petrol cost, BTW). Dad thinks I should take them as I agreed, and is upset that I have said I won't.

So AIBU? I am just so cross that they have been so crass and rude, then don't even have the grace to apologise and act like I'm the one in the wrong, while they are the injured party. The thing is, when it comes to my brother I sometimes can't see the wood for the trees and can over-react, so would appreciate some perspective. AIBU?

Sorry for the rant.

Mrs terry previous post i mean where she mentioned possible whole family denial.

I'm glad you haven't had this experience, Mrs TP. I have and so have many of my friends, had the experience of a sibling being deliberately cruel through reasons of pure selfishness - as in simply finding things an inconvenience to their own lives, yet still always having a hand out for money from the person they have hurt. It's a horrible thing to have to try to work through.

MrsTP
Hadn't really thought about it. I suppose I want to help my parents out when asked and that makes me like I've done the right thing. Feeling like i've done the right thing gives me satisfaction, so I suppose you could say doing my bother a favour on behalf of our parents gives me a degree of satisfaction unrelated to the favour to him. I don't think it makes me feel better, but I do sometimes think "well I'd better do it or he'll cause x, y, z problem, so one of us better be helpful". Is that what you are getting at?

I have experience of that behaviour, Soldier, believe me I have. However, it doesn't come from nowhere.

What I'm getting at, and probably years of therapy is more appropriate than a stranger on the internet, is that both of you are fixed in your roles. People tend not to continue to do things without some reinforcement. So, if some of your identity is mixed up with being 'good' or responsible or whatever, then the reward is that feeling that you describe. All good and healthy. We should feel happy when we do nice things.

But if some of that feeling comes from being good in relation to your DB being bad, that's where the issue is. Or if you can't express negative emotions (or in this case, get very angry when you do, because maybe you're carrying some around) then that's not healthy for you. Because you have to be the good one, because he isn't. "well I'd better do it or he'll cause x, y, z problem, so one of us better be helpful" does sound like that.

It may not be causing you any issues at all. But I have a friend who is in this situation and she finds it very difficult to be judged at all and it affects her parenting. She also puts a lot of pressure on herself to be perfect.

Sorry if this is becoming a little Agony Auntish.

RE the whole 'golden child' thing (though I know you said you've never been called that OP), my DM swears blind me and my DB were treated equally. I was always aware this wasn't the case and now we're older, my DB can see it too. He's the 'golden child' and though I wasn't exactly abused or neglected, small things I did were a big deal and my DB could get away with some really bad behaviour without so much as a telling off. Strict parents/family is one thing but seeing a sibling getting so much more leeway and more support is really disheartening.

For example, me expecting to get a monthly allowance to help me through uni was unreasonable and my reaction to it definitely caused issues. However, my brother got it and all I was really expecting was to be treated the same. The reason I didn't get it was that my DB was still being funded.

Not that any of that ^^ matters, but maybe some food for thought for you? Might help you understand your DB a bit if you can see any of this in your past.

Either way, your DB and his W need to apologise for messing you around in my opinion. It was bloody rude and regardless of any history, you were doing them a favour (or your parents, depending on how you look at it).

But I'd take them home with the condition that everything is ready to go the moment you collect them and they bring snacks for the car. Then let them stew in their juices. You being better off now (as my DB is, while I struggle) isn't a crime, nor should they hold it against you. What do they expect you to do? Hand them a lump sum in return for bad behaviour?!

Well of course it has to come from somewhere, that's obvious. But not necessarily from something in childhood, as you claim.

It is just as possible for an adult to change and become a pretty vile person. I know of one for whom sheer greed did this. They were convinced the GPs will was unfair because their cousin got an equal share - and the cousin was adopted. Disgusting behaviour and luckily the cousin never knew about it.

OP seems pretty balanced, there is not suggestion that she feels the need to judge herself by her brother's failures or to measure herself against him. In fact, it sounds as if the reverse is happening and the borhter is in denial about his own part in things.

What OP does say is that she finds the things he has done in the past to be horrible. As her mother and uncle have not given the brother any share of their mother's estate, then it seems likely they share OPs feelings, along with the cousins who also have not offered to give him money.

It is noticeable that the brother seems to perpetuate his previous behaviour of continuing to "demand" things - money, jewelery, lifts etc and the family is almost coerced into doing whatever he wants. For some reason, he is still exerting quite a strong force.

Yes my brother too would say we were both treated the same. However we weren't, my brother was treasured and supported. While I wasn't treasured really and was made the scape goat because I didn't follow my families religious obsession.

Ops mother may well be making provisions for her DS and DGS out of her share and is maybe also waiting for her DS to prove he won't go off the rails again.

My nana left money for myself and DB for my mum to give to us, she deliberately wouldn't give direct to DB as he was married to money grasping SIL (we found this out when both she and DB asked for money to get married my nana refused!).

FFW 5-10 years and DB is divorced and married to a non grasping woman new SIL is if anything total opposite!

It wouldn't surprise me if DM and DF wills make more provision for ops DB than op.

I really don't understand why this thread gas veered off into the realms of amateur psychology.

OP did her parents,brother and his family a favour, providing transport to a family occasion which they wouldn't otherwise have been able to attend.

They messed her around, accidentally through sheer disorganisation and deliberately through the SILs delays at work.

They then discuss dividing up the contents of the parents home in front of the DM.

Let alone the history of blighting the family's life with no apparent regret or apology, stealing from the GM and the casual entitlement on display.

It takes some mental gymnastics to turn this all on to the OP, the "golden child" - who happened to get through her adolescence like most people, without becoming a drug addict or a thief.

So OP is certainly guilty as charged of usually managing to avoid this long shadow over her relationship with her parents. Good for her!

OP all I can see you've done wrong is lost your temper after a period of intense frustration and provocation. That was wrong, but understandable.

In future, don't offer any more lifts, favours or money. Just maintain the best relationship you can with your parents.

That doesn't mean you have to take responsibility for your brother's inadequacies just because you, unlike him, have made a success of your life.

Round of applause for olgaga. Exactly!!

You've hit the nail on the head, olgaga.
All the cod psychology, turning things around so it is OPs fault for not stealing from her grandmother or being a drug addict, backed up by "I know these kids, I know their problems" puts me in mind of Not the Nine O'clock News:

And that was back in the 80s.

Agree olgaga.

Op - what a disgrace that you didn't arrange a chauffeur for these charming people- you owe them everything
(oh no actually you don't)

Good luck for the drive home today op

My DB and I were brought up the same and he's a violent manipulative dick. Sometimes people just turn out to be dicks, there's not always a childhood sob story. In fact I'm the one with the childhood sob story because of my DB.

People who come from relatively happy families can't understand why people like myself and OP distance ourselves from what should be a naturally close relationship. However, you'll find that those we've cut off have been allowed to get away with so many chances and behaviour that would never be tolerated from a non relative. Nevertheless, there's only so much someone can take even from family before you have to cut them off to protect your own mental health.

OP drive them home but don't have anything more to do with them. Don't let your DF unrealistic wish for a Waltons style family guilt trip you into doing favours for people who don't like or respect you. I used to do things for my DB to please my DM but in the end I stopped because it just led to even more spite from DB as he knew I felt obligated to help him.

Also nobody is entitled to inheritance money. If you treated somebody badly whilst they were alive, don't expect to get a share of their hard earned either directly or through the back door by other guilt tripped recipients. That should be a lesson to him to treat his living relatives better. I'd spin in my grave if I knew someone I made a point of not giving money to ended up with it anyway.

I do believe that when it comes to inheritances, "fair" actually isn't always "equal"!

As someone though, who behaved badly when I was younger, I have changed and gone on to have a (relatively!) normal life, job and family and so on. Over two decades later, it feels like that person wasn't actually me. (And there was a reason behind it.) I didn't steal family jewellery, I admit, but I shudder at some of the stuff I did. I would be very upset if my family hadn't recognised I had changed and grown up and was a different person now. I guess my "punishment" is now regretting my actions and praying my DC don't end up like me.

I'm probably projecting, it sounds like a lot of us are! Families can be very difficult OP, I do sympathise as it's hard to go NC with people you feel you should, due to other family members, such as parents. I just feel a bit sorry for the DC in what seems like a very awkward situation.

Did you give them a lift back, OP? How did the rest of the weekend develop?

But the deceased relative's decision as to how she wanted her estate to be divided are certainly not the OPs responsibility.

I think it's awful that some people are saying the OP might invest some of her own family's money for her nephews!

It's up to DM and DF to "do something" for the DB and his family. They certainly seem to have done their best over the years.

The DBs behaviour, his failures in life, are not the OPs responsibility.

Nonsense. OP doesn't owe her brother anything. He may have had a rough ride in the past but he continues to behave like a prize arse. He does not see that he is now dealing with the repercussions of his previous behaviour, but is rather choosing to behave in a petulant and at times offensive manner.

OP, you have maintained your cool incredibly admirably during the course of this thread, some of the posts are just ridiculous.

As for the lift back, in order to keep the peace and not pile stress onto your dad, I would say give them a lift home. Do nothing for DB/SIL again.

Thanks all.
I did give them a lift, it was relatively painless in the end as mum got them up in plenty of time to ensure they were ready and she had also packed provisions for us all, which was nice of her. The journey was not the most pleasant, but we got there in the end. I have made it clear to DM/DF that, unless it's a dire emergency, I won't be doing favours such as these again, as it is not worth the hassle.

I genuinely don't know why he ended up in so much trouble, but I genuinely believe we both had a normal, loving childhood. I know my parents have done all they can to help him over the years, sometimes I wonder if they helped him a bit too much in the past (paying off debts etc) but at the end of the day that was up to them. I am much better off, for now, keeping my distance from DB/SIL and I don't think they feel differently.

In answer to other questions, having thought about it I have decided against putting money aside for my nephews, I don't think that's my responsibility. I have no idea if our parents plan to leave extra provision for DN's or not, but that is up to them to decide. I know they have written into their will that any money left to DB (and as far as I know it is a 50/50 split between me and DB) will be administered through a trust rather than him getting money directly as they are concerned about his ability to manage large amounts of cash. I don't think he is aware of this, but I could be wrong. I should imagine that if they feel he has shown improvements in his ability to manage finances sensibly they may change their will to reverse this clause.

I'm glad the trip was ok. I think it sounds like you are being sensible to not get too involved in any will talk and I think it's perfectly ok not to give money to your DNs -

I wouldn't hold my breath but maybe your BD and SIL will mellow and mature over time and you might be able to have some sort of relationship with them. For the time being you are doing the right thing by keeping your distance.

Well done OP, life is difficult enough without feeling guilt or responsibility for situations and relationships in which you have little or no influence.

I think you have been fairer and more generous and accommodating than most people would be. And your feelings of doubt and disquiet are proof of your fundamental decency.

Nice update OP, glad it worked out ok-ish in the end.

Good for you OP.

I know they have written into their will that any money left to DB (and as far as I know it is a 50/50 split between me and DB) will be administered through a trust rather than him getting money directly as they are concerned about his ability to manage large amounts of cash. I don't think he is aware of this, but I could be wrong

Do you know who the trustees are? Being the trustee of such a trust could be an extremely unpleasant task, as the beneficiary is likely to be angry and obstructive.