To not want 13 year old to trek in Northern India/Pakistan border with dad?

[pathogenius]

Ex-H is moving off to travel in Northern India for 6 months. We split when our DC, now 13, was 6 months old though he's remained in and out of DC's life. Ex is struggling with major guilt about leaving DC's life for long periods of time to live in other countries. But now he would like to go off to India to live for a minimum of 6 months and he would like our DC to join him this summer for 7 weeks in and around the India/Pakistan border (trekking/living out in the open, under the stars). I am having great difficulty feeling all right with this. Ex does not know India or this area at all. He is not living a mainstream life whilst out there. He plans on roughing it, backpacking, trekking, camping, crashing here and there. It's a very unstructured life for a 13 year old. That's my opinion. Dad can do this. That's fine. But I think our DC is still too young to go away for that length of time to such a far off place. The idea is to live a life without technology, so our contact would be practically nil!

Thoughts? Experiences? Insight? Thank you!

To be clear: there's no way I'd let a child off to the India / Pakistan order with a mentally stable adult either!

I tell you what, I wish I could respond to each one of you individually and say thank you!! Except BelfastBloke... my response to you is, "Fancy a hairbrained trip to the Thar desert/Pakistan-India border? I know a reptile who's going." ;-) Thanks for the lizard brain clarification... I'm still confused. Sounds a little 'kray-kray'... much like my post.
But 'thank you' is not enough. I can't thank you guys enough! You've been beyond helpful! When I started this thread, I felt like the bad guy, the wrong parent, trying to control the situation, possibly stymying an unbelievable opportunity of travel for DC. But I also knew that it was/is wrong... all wrong in so many ways, this trip.
The more I read- and heaven's above I didn't expect any replies- the more I realise that this is beyond a proposed trip to India. I'll be blunt. I was mauled in the family courts years ago and it's left me totally afraid of saying 'no' to my ex. If I say 'no' the nasty, threatening letters/emails come flying at me, to my current husband, to DC's school. Ex's anger just explodes and the debris is relentless. And he's so articulate, intelligent, and nasty when he writes. It's all very intimidating. And of course, it all turns into a diatribe of how I've ruined our son. It makes me feel awful as a person when he goes down that road. I have worked so hard for the past few years to contain so many fires. My relationship with my ex is one of modesty, kindness -sometimes a bit forced, I won't lie, a bit of fear of destabilising the peace we've established, and putting out fires. I just keep the peace for the sake of keeping everything stable for DC. He doesn't need two parents disagreeing all the time. And I can't stand confrontation. It really stresses me out. But because exH has had such a distant relationship with DC, it's not been too hard to keep the peace, especially in the past 3 years when he's been in Afghanistan and living in other parts of the UK.

I've written to him and said no to the trip to India and I've explained why. I think the "pack his sleeping bag, boots and 4 shirts and we'll buy the rest on the road" was a real nail in the coffin for me, amongst other comments he made, like "If you meet a stranger in the airport and you don't trust them, go to the police. If you meet a stranger in the airport who has a nice chat with you and fills you with a sense of trust, enjoy the conversation!" Look, I have bus stop chats nearly every day, but I just feel like this is poor advice.

The nail bomb of criticism will now be unleashed via an enormous amount of emails and texts. I shall run for cover. :-/
Thank you for the strength, the insight... you have all been amazing, so straight up and honest.

No no no - if you let him go you could quite possibly be making the biggest mistake of your life. That may sound melodramatic but have you read to FCO advice about the area, and that's before you take into consideration your XH's mental state and the conditions and terrain they'll be dealing with.

He needs your permission (written) to take DS out of the country ... it is conceivable your XH could forge this so please I for the airline/immigration so that his removal from the country can be stopped at the airport if t gets to that stage.

Well done

you poor thing it all sounds awful

you've done the right thing

Sorry x posted - well done!

Very well done for standing up for your lad and for common sense!

The more you write about your Ex the more he sounds unstable and it must be a nightmare dealing with him. His unrealistic attitude about how a 13 year old should cope with difficult situations speaks volumes about his fraught mental state.

You may need a large dose of courage in the coming weeks, so wishing you the very best.

OP, you say your son doesn't need two parents disagreeing the whole time but that's not the case here. Your ex is unstable and is not capable of making responsible decisions so if you must disagree with him over the safety / welfare of your son, then so be it. It is not disagreeing, it is you being the responsible parent and putting the welfare of your son first, not allowing your ex to make stupid, crazy, insane decisions and try to bully you into agreeing to it.

You sound really exhausted from being put through the mill by the family courts but just try and get that confidence back and if your gut tells you no, then you just say no to him. If he wants to be around and be in his son's life, then he needs to make the effort to be IN his son's life and that means his life at home - school, friends, local area, etc so he can get to know him better, not bringing him across the world to a terrorist region. Bloody heck.

Well done.

I still can't see any judge saying you should send your son to an area against Foreign Office advice (and if they did you might well have grounds for a complaint).

Well done for being an adult, your son is still young enough to not need to be given too much responsibility.

I think you've made the right decision given all the extra information.

Having just read through the whole thread - I wanted to say well done OP for standing up to your ExH.

Your DS will have plenty of time to see the world at a more appropriate age. Half the beauty of travelling is that first experience of real independence. Your ExH needs to deal with his own issues on his own.

Might be a good idea to keep a record of the shit storm correspondence you have with your ex about this trip (especially his reaction to DS not going). Also, I second PPs about hiding passport and ticket. Can't be too careful here.

I agree with Tophat90 about keeping a record of what's gone on, a timeline of conversations, when the ticket arrived etc. Plus download/screenshot the FO advice as at today, just in case you need to prove in future the status at the time you made the decision. Also keep all his emails and texts.

You Can communicate with your ex via a solicitor if you prefer. I know that costs money but it may be worth it to you to avoid the shitstorm. You sound like an amazing parent and your dc is very lucky to have you. I also think you have shown a lot of strength, standing up to a bully and taking on your dc's possible disappointment (but no doubt enormous relief as well). You should be proud of yourself.

I also think you have shown a lot of strength, standing up to a bully and taking on your dc's possible disappointment (but no doubt enormous relief as well). You should be proud of yourself

I'd second that - though I back to say same as Tophat90 and PerspicaciaTick to keep record and correspondence from ex - though if you can get someone else to read them - another adult or if you can afford a solicitor as base9 suggests - so you don't get drawn in or start to engage with ex on the matter might be helpful.

I agree about keeping a full record of all contact with your Ex. I would also hide the passport, perhaps with your parents, certainly somewhere very secure not known to your DS.

As your Ex has the PP number, I would take the extra precaution of contacting Immigration and placing an alert on DS name against the risk of your Ex removing him from the country without your knowledge, which Ex may well plan in the future. This is in case your Ex applies for a replacement of a "lost" passport.

I am so glad you have said no to this. In the late 1980s a friend's brother went on an organised trek in northern Pakistan. He left the tour to do his own thing and disappeared. I had business contacts in Lahore and was asked if they could do anything to help. Their response was that it was a lawless area (even then) and very dangerous for outsiders. His body was found a few weeks later, having been robbed and murdered.

Your ex being ex-military, having served in Afghanistan, will make it far more dangerous than it already is, never mind his mental health. I think base 9's suggestion of communicating only through a solicitor is excellent.

Well done, OP. It can't be easy standing up to a man like that, but it was necessary, and you did it.

(The advice about "enjoying the conversation" with strangers who would strike a conversation up with an unaccompanied child at an airport really is the cherry on the cake.)

I really hope you didn't think I was supporting any of your ex's nonsense, OP!

I just thought I'd google 'lizard brain' to help you get a handle on the bizarre way your ex appears to be thinking. Of course I got engrossed in a sea of crazy websites. Finally I just cut-and-pasted a couple of things I thought might be clarifying to you about the phrase he used.

Like everyone else, I'm glad you have put your foot down over this dangerous situation.

Patsyandeddie do you actually know anything about this area of the world? How utterly naive to think that the DC would just have an interesting time and 'grow up' quickly .

Belfastbloke that cut and paste stuff was interesing, I'd never heard the expression either!

Belfastbloke, not in the least! I was only pulling your leg! Actually, I was/am so grateful to you. Your addition to this thread brought humour and insight and more weirdness to the table (George W. Bush IS reptilian... and we didn't need David Icke to tell us!) Actually, I am going to look into this Lizard Brain 'thing' further. I'm dead curious now. I'm actually really touched by the fact that you took time to look it up and describe in detail what it's all about.

Has Crazy Lizard Ex responded to your email yet? Are you OK?

i think crazy ex might already have departed for India? He was going for 6 months, way before the school holidays when his son was expected to travel over alone.

Hassled lol! Crazy Lizard Ex is living up to the name in spades. Thank you so much to you and Unexpected for checking up on me.
He left last night but goodness, not without a sh*tstorm of drama.
I have to say, it really hurt. We've been divorced for donkey's and yet to be told pretty much that I am a lousy mother whose role is completely unnecessary in a collection of emails and texts has left me feeling like the rug's been pulled out from underneath me. I still feel 'wrong'. He's left but not without unleasing an exhausting vitriolic diatribe. He's quite 'grandiose' and his emails are just rambling. I feel totally overwhelmed by his communication and by this experience. He's left with a bang and although there's peace and quiet now, as the time draws nearer for our son to board that flight to Delhi, I will get heat again.

What I have learned- and I've been unaware of this (consider me naive and foolish)- is that over a period of time, my ex has really undermined my role and me as a parent to our son. I know this sounds totally thick, but I hadn't even considered this happening for a moment. I thought all of this business of running me down to our son was in the distant past. Consequently our son feels abandoned, low, angry with me, angry in general, sad, unhappy with who he is... he said tonight that he wished he didn't exist, that he doesn't know where he 'fits' in life. I feel like I've let him down. He was always such a happy boy but this year's been a tough one. I just don't know what I'm dealing with exactly. I feel, for the first time in 13 years, out of my depth as a parent. My ex left me with these words (to paraphrase): our son would end up hating me if I didn't allow him to go to India to become a man. My role as a mother is on hold during the teen years. I am basically not needed. As a mother to a teenage boy, I don't understand him and he is moving away from me. This is why the trip to India is vital now. "You're a chick. You don't get it. He needs me,not you." Ok, to a degree yes, he is right. Boys need their fathers and their male role models more than ever in their teens. But I feel I've been erased without even realising it. I feel like the bad guy and it feels rotten. My husband keeps telling me "Don't endanger him (son). Don't put him on that plane. I wouldn't trust your ex as far as I could throw him" (and believe me, step-dad/husband is all for sending our son to India on a trip... just not THIS trip). Anyway, my heart is full of grace and thanks. I am indebted to you very kind, insightful folk. I'd be lost without this thread, so full of wisdom. Thank you kindly.

If he really called you a "Chick" that alone would make me take out a court order preventing him from contacting me.

Print out all his threatening belittling emails, take them to a solicitor or ask WA for advice re getting this idiot out of your life.

It sounds like your ds will need you through the teenage years more than ever - boys need GOOD male role models. Your ex isn't one, though his step father does seem to be filling that role well enough.

Your son doesn't know where he fits because his father is psychologically unwell and your son loves him and that is very very hard for him. This is not your fault and actually, if he is unwell, it isn't his father's fault either, it is just very sad.

Your husband sounds like a good one and you are obviously a competent, responsible and loving mother, so if your son can just hang on in there for a few more years, he will get clear of this.

I would seriously consider getting some outside help for your son right now. I don't want to be unnecessarily alarmist but I work with teenagers and a young man who was saying he wished he didn't exist would be referred for counselling. It may just be a pity party but it could be genuine. School or GP can refer for counselling.