To not want 13 year old to trek in Northern India/Pakistan border with dad?

[pathogenius]

Ex-H is moving off to travel in Northern India for 6 months. We split when our DC, now 13, was 6 months old though he's remained in and out of DC's life. Ex is struggling with major guilt about leaving DC's life for long periods of time to live in other countries. But now he would like to go off to India to live for a minimum of 6 months and he would like our DC to join him this summer for 7 weeks in and around the India/Pakistan border (trekking/living out in the open, under the stars). I am having great difficulty feeling all right with this. Ex does not know India or this area at all. He is not living a mainstream life whilst out there. He plans on roughing it, backpacking, trekking, camping, crashing here and there. It's a very unstructured life for a 13 year old. That's my opinion. Dad can do this. That's fine. But I think our DC is still too young to go away for that length of time to such a far off place. The idea is to live a life without technology, so our contact would be practically nil!

Thoughts? Experiences? Insight? Thank you!

[OrlandoWoolf]

Who has his passport?

If you do not want him to travel abroad, you very simply need to tell immigration. That will stop him going.



His Dad sounds in a bad place. Is he getting any support from the military?

[QuintShhhhhh]

Could he not have chosen Goa?

Or Kerala?
Rent a car and drive up to tea plantations and spice country and watch the view "down" to Tamil Nadu? Explore villages south of Tivandrum, backwater cruising from Cochin?

[GoStraightGoStraight]

This is an easy one. Er…no.

What kind of a decent parent would put his child's safety at risk by taking them voluntarily FOR FUN to a place like this? It's a big old world out there with plenty of great places to go trekking with a 13 yo but the Pakistan border ain't one of them right now. I know born and bred Pakistanis who daren't even set foot in Pakistan any more. If he wants to get his mid-life crisis kicks by flirting with kidnap and execution that's up to him but over my dead body would he be taking my child.

[Nanny0gg]

I stopped at the point you said your Ex has PTSD.

He cannot possibly be responsible for your DS on such a trip. What if something triggers his condition?

No. Unequivocally No.

Does he have parental responsibility or does what you say, go?

[Hulababy]

www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/india/safety-and-security

The FCO advise against all travel in the immediate vicinity of the border with Pakistan other than travel across the international border at Wagah. Rocket attacks launched from Pakistani territory landed near Attari, on the Indian side, in 2009. On 2 November 2014, an explosion caused multiple fatalities on the Pakistan side of the Wagah border crossing after the flag lowering ceremony.

The border between India and Pakistan in Rajasthan is unmarked in some areas. Approaching the border away from an official crossing point could be dangerous, and where unmarked could lead to a visitor straying into Pakistan.

[VelvetRose]

Absolutely no way. That is a crazy idea. That part of the world is incredibly dangerous and volatile and the mere suggestion of it makes me think he doesn't have a clue. There are so many other ways to have memorable adventures that do not entail this level of risk.

[ArcheryAnnie]

He's a military guy who served in Afghanistan. He has PTSD.

Good god. Your child, seven weeks incommunicado in an unstable region with someone who loves him, but who has PTSD?

I thought it was bad before, but seriously, no on every level.

You are right that it isn't your son's job to "fix" his dad, and I hope that he understands on some level that this trip won't "fix" him either, whether your son is with him or not.

Whether your ex gets counselling is up to him, but if your son needs help in negotiating his relationship with his dad, then it might be worth seeing if the charity Combat Stress might help - they work with family members as well as the people with PTSD.

This is what the family page www.combatstress.org.uk/veterans/families/ on their website says:

"Our 24-hour Helpline is for anyone affected by Service-related mental health problems, including family members. Please don't suffer in silence - talk to the Helpline on 0800 138 1619, text 07537 404 719 (standard charges may apply for texts) or email [email protected]"

[TheMagnificientFour]

Say NO, just say No. Even if he is buying the ticket and your ds doesn't go, it's OK too but do not let him go.

And I'm not just talking about the issue of where he wants to go.
Your ds shouldn't go because if he does, he will feel like it's his responsibility to fix his dad. Because his dad, in his own hurt, is relying on his son to make things better.
Because he won't be able to look after his ds.
And because he actually has no idea where he will be in July, if he will have enough money to welcome his son, if he will still be in India.

Serioulsy, if you need to say yes to your ex knowing you won't let your ds go, do it.
And explain the reasons why to your ds. Just that it's a dangerous place and the Foreign Office won't advice the trip.. That is enough of a reason for you to say No.

[GoStraightGoStraight]

Why would someone with PTSD from serving in Afghanistan choose to go travelling in Pakistan? That really doesn't sit right or ring true with me. You'd think he'd be happier in somewhere a bit less….Talibany really, wouldn't you?

[PerspicaciaTick]

It doesn't matter whether your DS wants to go or not, you are the adult and you must make the decision to protect him.
Travelling half way round the world to a war zone where he will potentially be his Dad's carer if the PTSD flares up, with no language, no support network, no safety net, he will be intensely vulnerable. And western ex-military lone traveller with child and no plans sounds like a target if the wrong type of people are looking for ways to raise their profile.

[meditrina]

Is it diagnosed PTSD? Because if so he must have been itw psychiatric services at some point. Is there any way you can get him back in touch with them (via the Veterans MH service) or try Combat Stress?

[pathogenius]

There's a lot that is out of my hands with regards to helping/guiding ex simply because we're no longer a couple. We get along well but we're really quite impersonal. I mean, it's been years since we were married and I just don't have a close relationship with him in that sense. I can't really suggest a whole lot to him. I don't know a lot about his PTSD history, just the basics. I'd love to say to him, "I am worried about you and the decision you're making now seems to be reactive rather than a well thought out, considered plan." But I know what his response will be. I don't know what input the military have had with regards to his mental health and I can't help but feel he's rejected any help offered. I don't know though. It's not fair for me to make such a comment, but I feel he's left this untreated. Does anyone understand PTSD? It's the first time I am dealing with it. I can't really ask him. I have to say at the moment, I feel so overwhelmed. I am used to the way things usually are which is: dad being around once in a blue moon and having our DC stay with him for the odd weekend. He's in and out of touch. It's not a hands-on relationship between father and DC but it is a loving one... it's just distant. So this '7 weeks in India' has come out of the blue. It's just so sudden and so unplanned. I have no idea what's going on. And the pressure to buy a ticket for our DC (he will pay) is intense. I am getting all sorts of emails about visas, etc. It's all about "Do it now! Do it now! I am leaving in two days and we must book this ticket before I go." He's been leaving "in two days" for the past week and he's still here. I don't know what the deal is. I don't know where he's flying to, Dehli I believe and then heading up North from there. I don't know where he's going to live exactly. All I know is ex is going to India and we've got to book a flight for DC 'NOW' for 7 weeks this summer. God thank you all for your wealth of responses and insight. I can't see the forest for the trees. But you're all so incredibly helpful. Thank you, Thank you!!!

[PurpleCrazyHorse]

Just say no, you're not booking the ticket and DC isn't going to Indian/Pakistan border. He might be angry but better that, than your DC getting kidnapped or worse.

You could offer alternatives, such as a camping trip in the UK for a week or so. DC would know the language, can take a mobile, you can get most places in less than a day if needed. It doesn't sound like you're stopping access with your ex but he can't take your DC to a dangerous location.

Your DC shouldn't have to choose either, it shouldn't be his choice, he's 13yo. He can 'blame' it on you with his dad if he feels that's easier and is under pressure from his dad.

[PurpleCrazyHorse]

Plus you have no idea what the itinerary is, what ex's plans are for meeting your DC etc, exactly where they are travelling, where they are staying.

If they were off to Centre Parcs, you'd expect your ex to have discussed with you and agreed the plan to get DC to the location, where it was, what DC needed to pack (i.e. what activities they would be doing) and how DC was getting home. You might well ask about sleeping arrangements and pack him off with a phone and probably ask ex to get DC to call home while away. That's just to go to Centre Parcs!

[littlemslazybones]

You need to advocate for your son. He doesn't want to let his Dad down so you need to be the bad guy here and say No on his behalf.

It is not in his best interest to get dragged off to somewhere dangerous as an emotional crutch for his vulnerable Dad.

[TwoLeftSocks]

Your ex sounds like he's having a really hard time of it and wants an escape. Sounds like it might work out for him out there but at the same time sounds like an incredibly ill advised idea to take your DS with him.

I'd also suggest alternatives - say no to India but maybe something adventurous and off-beat, but safe, closer to home. I suggested wild camping in the Scottish highlands upthread, my DH is ex-forces (but no PTSD issues) and very outdoorsy and that's exactly where he loves to head off to for an escape.

And maybe call the Combat Stress helpline, even though you're not a couple, you're still connected through care of your son. It might be useful for your son too, they might have some resources or help for children affected.

[dougierose]

Project yourself forward and look back on today as if in hindsight. What would your future self wish your present self had done?

When DH was 18 he went off to a Kibbutz in Israel bang in the middle of the first Iraq war. He flew back after a week as the sound of shelling freaked him out. We laugh about it now but he seriously questions how his parents ever allowed him to fly out. And he was 18, not 13.

[OrlandoWoolf]

If he's in India - well, he's not "too far" from countries like Thailand, Vietnam. A shorter break there might be better,

But... it sounds like he has his heart set on India. He has a plan and wants to follow it through. I am guessing he's so keen on the plan and making plans for being with your son that he can't see the bigger picture. His PTSD can't help.

It must be difficult dealing with someone who is in such an obsessed mood. He probably won't hear NO.

[MrsMook]

I've travelled around Rajasthan, and the infrastructure is good. We had no itinerary. We kept away from the border zone- this was 5 years ago.

The emotional side of it is a resounding no to me. With sense and caution, the travel itself isn't necessarily out of the question. It is a long time to be with a parent you're not used to, especially one with complex emotional needs. I went away at 16 with my parent for 3 weeks, and there were some emotional dumps along the way, which was hard when remote from home (pre mobile / Internet, so I wasn't used to instant communication anyway)

This sounds ill thought out for your child's needs.

[Marvintheparanoid]

Okay I'm living in India at the moment with DC and there is no way I would trek to the Indo-Pak border. If he wanted to visit India, there are plenty of quieter regions to visit, the border is the most unsuitable place for westerners now. If he were serious about this I would have suggested the south-western ranges of India, they could trek and live rough without getting blown up (dysentery and diarrhoea are a different issue).
However, he has PTSD, there is no way I would trust him to take DC so far away. Tell him NO, unequivocally No. Tell your DC that it's hard but he can't help Dad by going to trips with him, Dad needs to get better by himself, and then there will be plenty of time for bonding. All the emails he sends you about booking tickets, reply simply that DC can't go. He needs help, but you must first protect your DC. Can I also suggest some counselling for your DC to help him work out his feelings about his Dad? It's so common for children to want to protect their parents, but he needs to understand he can't really.

[Patsyandeddie]

What a fantastic opportunity, I did it at about 14, life changing and makes you grow up fast!

[Gralick]

Yes, dealing with an emotionally out-of-control father who appears to be trying to handle his untreated PTSD by visiting his old enemies at 'home' without invitation or itinerary would make a child grow up fast.

Brilliant idea

[Blu]

A dad taking a 13 yo half way round the world for 7 weeks for an adventure: great .
An area he doesn't know, and is unstable , and out of reach of much help : no
A trip that is a significant extent planned because of the Dad's needs: no
A trip where the child feels pressure to take responsibility for the emotions of the adult: no

Apart from the physical danger, your DS is being set up to fail. He can't heal his Dad's PTSD or his ongoing feelings of guilt and regret.

I would talk it through with your DS in these terms and explain that love for his Dad does not have to mean going on this trip, or rather not going is not disloyalty .

No way would I let my DS go.

[Gralick]

Patho, I think you need to explain to DS that it's a parent's role to parent a child, where his dad's holiday performance pretty much reversed the situation. A 13-year-old cannot and shouldn't be expected to know how to help a seriously distressed adult, he simply isn't equipped for it yet. Most adults don't even know how to help another grown-up after traumatic war experiences.

FWIW, your ex needs to regain trust in the world (obviously you lose it when you witness what disgusting things can happen) and the way to do that is with safe, steady predictability. Routines, knowing what's going to happen, and building friendships. Peace & quiet probably sounds insufferably shallow & boring to him, having seen how things 'really are'. This is understandable and professional support workers could help him ease back into a less dramatic life.

I suppose there's a possibility that his escapade could somehow let him develop a new perspective on the people he was fighting. It could equally throw him straight back into combat mode, unable to tell the difference between a bit of village fisticuffs and a military emergency, or leave him sobbing in a tea field. It's his personal project, undertaken for reasons he doesn't understand. Could he be persuaded to skype/facetime DS every day while he's out there (if he goes)?

I couldn't find an age-appropriate explanation about parentification for DS, sorry. This might be of some help.

[Gralick]

Oh, xposted, Blu. I think your summary was a good discussion point.