To not want 13 year old to trek in Northern India/Pakistan border with dad?

[pathogenius]

Ex-H is moving off to travel in Northern India for 6 months. We split when our DC, now 13, was 6 months old though he's remained in and out of DC's life. Ex is struggling with major guilt about leaving DC's life for long periods of time to live in other countries. But now he would like to go off to India to live for a minimum of 6 months and he would like our DC to join him this summer for 7 weeks in and around the India/Pakistan border (trekking/living out in the open, under the stars). I am having great difficulty feeling all right with this. Ex does not know India or this area at all. He is not living a mainstream life whilst out there. He plans on roughing it, backpacking, trekking, camping, crashing here and there. It's a very unstructured life for a 13 year old. That's my opinion. Dad can do this. That's fine. But I think our DC is still too young to go away for that length of time to such a far off place. The idea is to live a life without technology, so our contact would be practically nil!

Thoughts? Experiences? Insight? Thank you!

[feetheart]

Must admit that I agree with PerspicaciaTick, it does sound like your ex is on the verge of a breakdown or something. He sounds manic, irrational, unable to see anything from anyone else's point of view (particularly a 13 yr old boy's) and is actually a danger to himself and certainly your DS.
I wouldn't be happy with him taking a child to Bournemouth in his current state let alone the Indian/Pakistan border!

[Jacobsmum1972]

Isn't that a hostile region India/Pakistan border.

[ApproachingATunnel]

Wow. This is absolutely crazy. No, no, no. 13y/o out in one of the most dangerous places with his mentally unstable dad- lifechanging experience? Oh yes, im certain it would be but in a BAD, very bad way.
Give DS's passport to the relative/friend you trust
Contact the airline/immigration
Tell DS it is not happening (he cant be burdened with this decision as someone already pointed out)

Really, your DS has lifetime ahead of him for lifechanging experiences and 'being a lion' if he wants that. Your ex can eff off, it's not like this is the last opportunity ever for your son to do something crazy. He will have many years to go on adventures he chooses for himself so dont feel like your are taking away something exciting from him. I am sure at some point in the future he will thank you for saying no.

[Bluestocking]

Even reading this thread makes me feel anxious, OP, so I can't even begin to imagine how you must be feeling. Your XH's plans are completely insane and there is absolutely no way your DS can be dragged into this mess. Can you tell your XH that this is not going to happen, and simply refuse to engage with any further communication on the subject? I wonder if you should also make sure DS's passport is locked away, just in case DS himself feels that he should try and join his father.
I wish you strength in handling this; it's an awful situation for you and your poor DS, and your XH too must be in one hell of a bad state to have conceived such a crazy plan.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

" DC is incredibly stressed about dad. He feels as if he has to fix dad's life, make it better. "
Sorry, but you really need to protect your son from his father. How very fucking dare he make your son feel this way ! You are ENTITLED to be angry at this man and to tell him he needs to back off. His plans for your son are ludicrous.

And I agree with others that you need to place your son's passport somewhere safe; your ex seems to be quite the master of manipulation and guilt with both you and your son .

[ApproachingATunnel]

I agree with those saying ex is having crisis/breakdown. His actions are of a person who has nothing to lose and is very likely depressed: career didnt work out, relationships didnt work out, he has ptsd and packs up all his life, in fact screw life, lets just head somewhere crazy and see what happens. Crazy thought but perhaps he hopes to get killed out there and put an end to shitty existence that way?...

[Blu]

Arguing about stopovers in Helsinki is a distraction. No point in getting entangled in arguments about delays and hotels unless you are actually planning to let him go.

I would take legal advice, lock the passport somewhere it cannot be found (strapped in a plastic bag to the underside of the cistern kid at your brother 's house for example, and give an unequivocal 'no'

[Nanny0gg]

Does your Ex have parental responsibility?

And for God's sake read this again: No cities are mentioned other than Delhi. If I voice any concern whatsoever I am told that my fear and 'lizard brain' (whatever the hell that is) are getting the better of me... that I live in fear and now it's time to allow our son to become a man and be a lion.

Does any of that sound remotely rational?
Hide his passport. And say No.

[TwoLeftSocks]

I wonder if he just wants to be a lion himself - to stand up and try and take control of the life that's a bit of a mess for him at the moment. And to him, taking your son along will give him the chance to stand up and be the dad he's not really been to date. Still a very ill conceived idea.

Don't let him make you feel like a bad parent. You're asking very rational, sensible questions about his travel and safety, like any rational, sensible parent would.

This won't be his only chance to see the world, he has a lifetime ahead of him to do all of that, including (less worrisome) adventures with his dad.

[base9]

OP - you need to stop debating this trip with your irrational ex. Just say no, very loudly and clearly. Then repeat it as necessary. Do not waver Or debate. Your dc really needs you to be strong and take all the pressure and kickback.

[Ketchuphidestheburntbits]

Dear ex,

I do not give permission for our DC to go on this trip to India as I consider it not to be in his/her best interests. I am not prepared to discuss this any further with you.

DC is finding the pressure you are putting on him/her is causing distress so I will be blocking your emails and phone calls for the next month.

Pathogenius

[Canyouforgiveher]

Your ex is having a breakdown and will probably be in trouble in India well before the date he wants your son to join him. In his current state, I would not let my son go on a trip to the US with him still less the India/Pakistan border. Does he have any family who could intervene (your ex)? because I would be quite concerned about him travelling for his own sake to be honest.

You are engaging with your ex and making him think you may send your son on this insane trip by raising issues such as layovers. Don't engage. Wish him well and ignore anything about your son other than to say, he is too young for this trip. or ideally nothing -- say nothing. do not respond. tell your ds it isn't going to happen end of story. he will probably be relieved to have a serious responsible adult take control.

Your son needs someone to talk to about his dad and the worry and guilt he feels about him.

And am I the only one thinking that if for some bizarre reason you let your son go, you might be in serious trouble after the inevitable call from the consulate saying he needs help (and "help" is best case scenario). I would honestly have difficulty thinking a parent who let a 13 year old go on this trip was safe to have custody.

[Iflyaway]

I agree. The whole thing sounds crazy and your ex sounds like he's having a breakdown.

There's no way of course you can let this happen.

Absolutely crazy of him to expect your DS to fly to India via Helsinki with layover on his own at the age of 13. That already shows he is in no way thinking rationally. ("He can just get a hotel") WTF?!

What if god forbid he isn't at Delhi airport to meet your son (anything can happen right?).

Also the fact that he is not willing to discuss this with you in a rational manner but pressurising you to just do it shows a lot.

FWIW, my DS has done lots of solo flying as a kid (> grandparents for half term, I'm a LP) and they have to go as UM till at least 14 (Easyjet). Other airlines may have older ages.

This means you have to deliver him to the airport, check him in and fill out a long form with names/address/tel.nr. etc.. of dropper and picker up (there and return flight if ircc).
It also means if there is no pick-up on landing they will fly him back.


You have to let your son know he is not responsible for "fixing" his dad. And there is no way you can let him travel by himself. I can't imagine a 13 year-old lad being super confident about that scenario anyway....

Good advice about the organisation you have been recommended.

I hope it all works out for the two of you.

[Marvintheparanoid]

OP you are getting caught up in particulars. The stopover in Helsinki does not matter, whether the desert is to the south or north of Delhi doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that this is an ill-thought out plan for a trip to a dangerous place, from a man who is clearly near a breakdown.

Tell him your DS is not going to the trip. Tell him that's the final decision. Ignore any attempts to discuss. Tell your DS that he can go on a trip of a lifetime with his Dad when older, he will not go on this one. And hide the passport.

[Coyoacan]

Really OP, do not permit this to happen! And I am very far from an overprotective mother, I was always for having an adventure and letting my dd have adventures.

As I said above, if your ex was familiar with the area from previous trips and wasn't trying to turn your son into his carer, it would be another story.

But please do not let this happen

[catguilt]

I agree with others that your dh sounds mentally interesting. Does he have any history or family history of manic depression as this trip has all the hallmarks of a manic episode.

[catguilt]

hmm you need to step up here and be a lioness yourself. Say no and as others have said don't engage in any other discussion.

[SunnyBaudelaire]

yes you have to protect your young.
tbh it does sound as though your ex has some kind of mental health problem and by agreeing to this you would put your child at 'significant risk of harm'.
Disengage.

[SunnyBaudelaire]

yes we all have a reptilian back brain which is why we e'g' always try to sit in the same seat in a staffroom or classroom.
The other part is the caring, rational, mammalian part of the brain. Sounds like he should start using it.
BTW is he into Icke?

[DazzleU]

You need to advocate for your son. He doesn't want to let his Dad down so you need to be the bad guy here and say No on his behalf.

^^This - I'd lock your DC passport and the ticket away.

I'd tell your DC that it's not happening. I may go into why - if questions were asked - age, foreign office warnings, lack of planning, distance but emphasise the no that it's decision that been made carefully and isn't changing.

I'd clearly tell your ex NO - and refuse to get drawn into discussions about why it's a no.

I think you have to suck up being the bad guy here. It's a poorly thought through plan with someone who is unwilling to compromise at the minute - so it's a no.

[NickiFury]

I think your son is old enough to know why to be honest. If it's to do with his safety. I also think you shouldn't come out looking the bad guy. My ex is flaky and I tell ds just enough for him to have a basic grasp why some things can't be done. He gets it. It's not slagging his Dad off, it's giving your ds the skills to protect himself from his fathers extreme behaviour.

[titchy]

Why on earth are you continuing to engage with this? Who cares about the lack of cities mentioned, the layover in Helsinki. The trip's not going to happen so all these things are irrelevant. You sound like you're actually considering it? You also sound like you still feel responsible for your ex.

You are only responsible for yourself and your child, who is right now emotionally very damaged by his relationship with his father (why does he feel he is responsible for his father - does he copy that from you?). It is NOT a good relationship, however loving it might be, and your child needs protecting. You are the ONLY one that can do that. So do it.

And look into counselling for yourself and your son.

[hoobypickypicky]

All you need to say is no. There's no other conversation to be had. You won't be swayed, you won't be persuaded, you won't be bullied. The answer is no. The subject is closed. Block his emails and phone number if you have to.

Take your child's passport and ask someone you trust 100% and who you know won't be coerced by your ex to keep it until you ask for it again.

If my ex had booked a ticket for my child to travel abroad without my consent they wouldn't be having unsupervised access to them again. Your ex patently have no respect for you as parent with care and no regard for his child's welfare.

[BelfastBloke]

In many personal improvement books I've read, people make a distinction between 2 parts of our brain:

-- the logical brain, dealing with logic, judgement, thinking; what makes Humans different than Animals

-- the lizard brain inherited from our ancestors, dealing with emotions and instincts, which takes shortcuts to react to the immediate problems, such as a saber tiger croping up to eat us.

The facts are, the lizard brain sometimes take actions/decisions without making the logical brain aware of that, which is at the origin of many brain biases.

The Lizard Brain is not the same as David Icke's reptilian theory. The Lizard Brain thing seems to be just a simplistic way of describing a separate 'primitive' part of the brain (which doesn't exist), whereas David Icke thinks lizards secretly rule the world.

At the heart of David Icke's theories lies the idea that a secret group of reptilian humanoids called the Babylonian Brotherhood (including George W. Bush, Queen Elizabeth II, ...) controls humanity, and that many prominent figures are reptilian. He further proposes that the Moon is an artificial construct — "probably a hollowed-out planetoid" — from which the reptilians broadcast an "artificial sense of self and the world" that humans mistakenly perceive as reality.

[coconutpie]

WTF? This thread is one of the craziest scenarios I've ever read. Your ex is not stable and there is no way in hell I would be letting a 13 year old CHILD off to the India / Pakistan border with a mentally unstable person. This is just insane.

OP, just please put a stop to this bullshit now. Tell your DC that he won't be going and I also think it'd be a very good idea to get some support from your GP etc regarding the responsibility / guilt your DC has been getting from his father, especially after the wall punching incident. Your DC needs to know that he is not responsible for "fixing" his father.

As for your ex... Well I'd be telling him where to stick that plane ticket. Just call him up and tell him no, hell no, and you won't be entertaining this ridiculous nonsense any longer. The whole thing has just insanity written all over it. Your ex sounds like a right idiot and doesn't sound like he's capable of being responsible for himself, never mind a 13 year old child in a war zone.