To not want 13 year old to trek in Northern India/Pakistan border with dad?

[pathogenius]

Ex-H is moving off to travel in Northern India for 6 months. We split when our DC, now 13, was 6 months old though he's remained in and out of DC's life. Ex is struggling with major guilt about leaving DC's life for long periods of time to live in other countries. But now he would like to go off to India to live for a minimum of 6 months and he would like our DC to join him this summer for 7 weeks in and around the India/Pakistan border (trekking/living out in the open, under the stars). I am having great difficulty feeling all right with this. Ex does not know India or this area at all. He is not living a mainstream life whilst out there. He plans on roughing it, backpacking, trekking, camping, crashing here and there. It's a very unstructured life for a 13 year old. That's my opinion. Dad can do this. That's fine. But I think our DC is still too young to go away for that length of time to such a far off place. The idea is to live a life without technology, so our contact would be practically nil!

Thoughts? Experiences? Insight? Thank you!

[MagicCarpet]

Your poor boy. No wonder he's feeling confused about where he fits.
Why will the ex still be laying heat on about the ticket? You've said no, it's done. Perhaps you were talking through the 'plans' - layovers, hotels, etc. to show the flaws in it all, but it does come across like you're considering it.

If you've said no, you've said no.

What is your ex's contact with your boy? Is he going to be texting/emailing him directly with this stuff?

You have his passport somewhere safe, yes?

I think some outside help may be a good idea for him, to help him gain a little perspective. Just as you couldn't see the wood for the trees at first, chances are he can't either.

[deedee33]

OP maybe your son feels bad about all the toing and froing and the upset to you? Maybe tou can reassure him that it's your (ie the adults')s problem, its what you sign up for as a parent and he is not to blame, and furthermorw you are not stressing any more, you are sorry if dad is upset but as mum you had to put your foot down, end of.

Not that he migjt not benedit.from hearing similar.from a professional too, mind.

[Coyoacan]

If your son genuinely wants adventure, maybe you could look into how he can get it in not such an OTT dangerous way.

[Littletabbyocelot]

You made the right decision. I was the child of a father with severe mental health problems. I was furious with my mum when she protected me from him BUT that's because I was a child and had no idea of the damage it did me. I thought he needed me to make his life ok. I went from a confident, mischievous chatterbox to a quiet, well behaved and very shy girl. As a parent you have the job of sometimes deciding against what they want. My mum did a good job and so are you. Keep his messages, if you end up back in court he'll look like the irresponsible parent he is.

[TwoLeftSocks]

Oh your poor lad! I'd totally agree about looking into outside help for him (and possibly you and him together too), just as Jackw and PerspicaciaTick have suggested up thread.

He sounds like he could really do with help getting his head round the situation to date, and also be able to cope with his future relationship with his dad.

He needs to know too that he can grow into a fine young man without any far flung (hair brained) trips or ill-judged risk taking, and to be in the position to make a sensible call himself on that sort of thing as he gets older. Doesn't mean he shouldn't go doing adventurous things, just be able to make a decision himself, without bending to emotional pressures.

Just a thought too - I don't know what justification you've given him for not heading out there but he might actually be concerned about his dad's safety and well being out there, and might actually be quite nervous about it over the summer.

You sound like a good mum, don't let your crazy lizard ex make you think otherwise.

[TheMaddHugger]

OK finished reading up to this point.

(((((((((((((((Big Hugs))))))))))))))

You made the right decision.

My own father had PTSD ( from WW2) My thoughts went straight to..... Trigger if he had a bad ptsd moment he could off himself and your son ....... Or.... in a moment of madness join the 'Other team Isis ' (yes that happens too)

[TheMaddHugger]

www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/lizard_brain.htm

[TheMaddHugger]

I haven't finished reading yet, but (and I often read this site) Lizard brain explanation is here.

www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/brainfunction.htm

[Coyoacan]

If your son has problems, apart from teenage hormones, I would say it is down to his father. It is really not very manly to make his thirteen-year-old son think that he has to look after him or to deliberately put said son in a dangerous situation.

[PerspicaciaTick]

You ex continues to sound like a complete disaster and an emotional bully too. Take a deep breath and enjoy knowing he is half a world away for the next few months. Focus on yourself and your DS for a while (your DH sounds like his head is screwed on right ).

Can you look into getting your DS some counselling asap (while his dad is at a safe distance), maybe even family counselling for you both together?
It might be worth asking at school, as many school have counselling services they can refer you to. Or contact Combat Stress as has already been suggested.

Also, just for you, could you look into local parenting courses for parents of teens not because I think you are in anyway a bad parent - quite the opposite - but it does sound like your confidence as a parent has taken a knocking and this sort of course could give your confidence a boost. //www.familylives.org.uk are a great organisation which supports all sorts of families in a range of ways - they might be a good place to start.

BTW - your DS still needs you. Maybe he pretends he doesn't, maybe he looks big and capable and certain. But he still needs to know you are his safe harbour, his safety net and that you always, always have his best interests at heart. Don't let your ex question your parenting, or make you feel sidelined - he really doesn't have the track record to be saying anything other than "thank you for being a fantastic mum to my son - you are doing a great job".

[Jackw]

Your son doesn't know where he fits because his father is psychologically unwell and your son loves him and that is very very hard for him. This is not your fault and actually, if he is unwell, it isn't his father's fault either, it is just very sad.

Your husband sounds like a good one and you are obviously a competent, responsible and loving mother, so if your son can just hang on in there for a few more years, he will get clear of this.

I would seriously consider getting some outside help for your son right now. I don't want to be unnecessarily alarmist but I work with teenagers and a young man who was saying he wished he didn't exist would be referred for counselling. It may just be a pity party but it could be genuine. School or GP can refer for counselling.

[titchy]

It sounds like your ds will need you through the teenage years more than ever - boys need GOOD male role models. Your ex isn't one, though his step father does seem to be filling that role well enough.

[Allalonenow]

If he really called you a "Chick" that alone would make me take out a court order preventing him from contacting me.

Print out all his threatening belittling emails, take them to a solicitor or ask WA for advice re getting this idiot out of your life.

[pathogenius]

Hassled lol! Crazy Lizard Ex is living up to the name in spades. Thank you so much to you and Unexpected for checking up on me.
He left last night but goodness, not without a sh*tstorm of drama.
I have to say, it really hurt. We've been divorced for donkey's and yet to be told pretty much that I am a lousy mother whose role is completely unnecessary in a collection of emails and texts has left me feeling like the rug's been pulled out from underneath me. I still feel 'wrong'. He's left but not without unleasing an exhausting vitriolic diatribe. He's quite 'grandiose' and his emails are just rambling. I feel totally overwhelmed by his communication and by this experience. He's left with a bang and although there's peace and quiet now, as the time draws nearer for our son to board that flight to Delhi, I will get heat again.

What I have learned- and I've been unaware of this (consider me naive and foolish)- is that over a period of time, my ex has really undermined my role and me as a parent to our son. I know this sounds totally thick, but I hadn't even considered this happening for a moment. I thought all of this business of running me down to our son was in the distant past. Consequently our son feels abandoned, low, angry with me, angry in general, sad, unhappy with who he is... he said tonight that he wished he didn't exist, that he doesn't know where he 'fits' in life. I feel like I've let him down. He was always such a happy boy but this year's been a tough one. I just don't know what I'm dealing with exactly. I feel, for the first time in 13 years, out of my depth as a parent. My ex left me with these words (to paraphrase): our son would end up hating me if I didn't allow him to go to India to become a man. My role as a mother is on hold during the teen years. I am basically not needed. As a mother to a teenage boy, I don't understand him and he is moving away from me. This is why the trip to India is vital now. "You're a chick. You don't get it. He needs me,not you." Ok, to a degree yes, he is right. Boys need their fathers and their male role models more than ever in their teens. But I feel I've been erased without even realising it. I feel like the bad guy and it feels rotten. My husband keeps telling me "Don't endanger him (son). Don't put him on that plane. I wouldn't trust your ex as far as I could throw him" (and believe me, step-dad/husband is all for sending our son to India on a trip... just not THIS trip). Anyway, my heart is full of grace and thanks. I am indebted to you very kind, insightful folk. I'd be lost without this thread, so full of wisdom. Thank you kindly.

[Unexpected]

i think crazy ex might already have departed for India? He was going for 6 months, way before the school holidays when his son was expected to travel over alone.

[Hassled]

Has Crazy Lizard Ex responded to your email yet? Are you OK?

[pathogenius]

Belfastbloke, not in the least! I was only pulling your leg! Actually, I was/am so grateful to you. Your addition to this thread brought humour and insight and more weirdness to the table (George W. Bush IS reptilian... and we didn't need David Icke to tell us!) Actually, I am going to look into this Lizard Brain 'thing' further. I'm dead curious now. I'm actually really touched by the fact that you took time to look it up and describe in detail what it's all about.

[Southamerica]

Patsyandeddie do you actually know anything about this area of the world? How utterly naive to think that the DC would just have an interesting time and 'grow up' quickly .

Belfastbloke that cut and paste stuff was interesing, I'd never heard the expression either!

[BelfastBloke]

I really hope you didn't think I was supporting any of your ex's nonsense, OP!

I just thought I'd google 'lizard brain' to help you get a handle on the bizarre way your ex appears to be thinking. Of course I got engrossed in a sea of crazy websites. Finally I just cut-and-pasted a couple of things I thought might be clarifying to you about the phrase he used.

Like everyone else, I'm glad you have put your foot down over this dangerous situation.

[ArcheryAnnie]

Well done, OP. It can't be easy standing up to a man like that, but it was necessary, and you did it.

(The advice about "enjoying the conversation" with strangers who would strike a conversation up with an unaccompanied child at an airport really is the cherry on the cake.)

[Molecule]

I am so glad you have said no to this. In the late 1980s a friend's brother went on an organised trek in northern Pakistan. He left the tour to do his own thing and disappeared. I had business contacts in Lahore and was asked if they could do anything to help. Their response was that it was a lawless area (even then) and very dangerous for outsiders. His body was found a few weeks later, having been robbed and murdered.

Your ex being ex-military, having served in Afghanistan, will make it far more dangerous than it already is, never mind his mental health. I think base 9's suggestion of communicating only through a solicitor is excellent.

[Allalonenow]

I agree about keeping a full record of all contact with your Ex. I would also hide the passport, perhaps with your parents, certainly somewhere very secure not known to your DS.

As your Ex has the PP number, I would take the extra precaution of contacting Immigration and placing an alert on DS name against the risk of your Ex removing him from the country without your knowledge, which Ex may well plan in the future. This is in case your Ex applies for a replacement of a "lost" passport.

[DazzleU]

I also think you have shown a lot of strength, standing up to a bully and taking on your dc's possible disappointment (but no doubt enormous relief as well). You should be proud of yourself

I'd second that - though I back to say same as Tophat90 and PerspicaciaTick to keep record and correspondence from ex - though if you can get someone else to read them - another adult or if you can afford a solicitor as base9 suggests - so you don't get drawn in or start to engage with ex on the matter might be helpful.

[base9]

You Can communicate with your ex via a solicitor if you prefer. I know that costs money but it may be worth it to you to avoid the shitstorm. You sound like an amazing parent and your dc is very lucky to have you. I also think you have shown a lot of strength, standing up to a bully and taking on your dc's possible disappointment (but no doubt enormous relief as well). You should be proud of yourself.

[PerspicaciaTick]

I agree with Tophat90 about keeping a record of what's gone on, a timeline of conversations, when the ticket arrived etc. Plus download/screenshot the FO advice as at today, just in case you need to prove in future the status at the time you made the decision. Also keep all his emails and texts.