Aibu to expect my dh to say "do you mind if ...

[MoanCraft]

I pop out for a run?" instead of coming down in the morning dressed in his gear and go without asking.
His defence is that it's not going to affect my day at all and that we (myself and ds) probably won't even be dressed for the day by the time he comes back. Although this is probably the case, am I bu to want him to just say "do you mind if I pop out for a run?"
Of course I wouldn't mind, but it would just be nice to be asked.

I think YANBU OP, and that people are being deliberately disingenuous repeating the words 'asking for permission' about a zillion times when I think it's quite clear that permission is not what you are talking about at all. It's common courtesy. There are any number of things that DH and I might want or need to do on a given weekend...DH might pop into work for an hour or up to 4 hours, I want to go for a run at some point, we probably need to pop to some kind of shop or e.g. garden centre or do some kind of house-related chore, we might need to prep a meal if we are entertaining one evening or day, and outside of that, we generally want to spend time together doing something fun with DD.

So it's not just courteous but also common sense to just discuss and agree how we're going to spend the time and what will fit best where/when. I never ask permission to go for a run, but I do say things like 'I might have an early run tomorrow then we can go for a family picnic', or DH might say 'I need to do about 3 hours work, so I might do that while you take DD swimming', or I might say 'I need about an hour to make the dessert for tonight, so do you want to do x with DD whilst I do that', or whatever.

I find it very odd that people really live in these relationships where people just swan about doing their own thing all the time without discussing it with each other. It is not permission, it is courtesy and just good sense, and part of living a shared life, and depending on your dynamic, it does sound for you OP like it's about being the default parent, which is not good.

YADNBU. Why on earth should he assume you'll look after ds while he goes out running? Difficult one though as he is doing something worthwhile. My dh always assumes that I will do the childcare 24/7 as I am the primary carer and don't work and he does e.g. this weekend when ds was away on weekend expedition about which he was very anxious, absolutely not one word from dh as to how he was, or not drinking in case he needed to be fetched from the place 2hrs away etc. The problem is the assumption that you'll hold the fort.

So you're not even dressed at this stage?

I'd say something along the lines of "off for a run, back in 30 mins" or similar in that situation.

You could always say "OK, but don't forget we're going out at 10 so you'll need to be ready for then" or similar.

I certainly wouldn't feel the need to validate my decision with you and I wouldn't expect you to sit & seethe about it!

And do people really say shit like "I need about an hour to make the dessert for tonight, so do you want to do x with DD whilst I do that" ?

I think that isn't normal TBH, whereas going for a run while your DP is sat in their dressing gown watching Spongebob with the kids is....

I don't think this is a "default parent" thing, actually. I agree that definitely happens but I don't think it is happening here.

If your normal routine is to have a lazy wake up and he wants to take advantage of that time, brilliant.

Deliaskis, what you describe would feel suffocating to me. DH and I often do our own thing, if it's going to take a long time (over 40 mins or so) then of course, you double check the other doesn't have plans. But generally, DH or I will announce "I'm going to..." and it doesn't matter. We don't generally schedule our weekends down to the last half an hour anyway.

It's just different communication and planning styles. Ours works for us and yours works for you.

Agree, it's all about courtesy and communication, not "asking permission".

It's a pattern of making assumptions, and the fact that it would be such a shock if you did the same thing.

I think the only way to bring it home to him is to do exactly what he does. Disappear for an hour without warning a few times, when you know he doesn't have anything specific on. Just assume that he'll be fine with it.

He'll be the one who'll bring it up for discussion then, and by your actions you'll have already made your point so it should be a pretty short discussion!

Surely though when he comes down in his kit you would just say "how long are you going to be? I thought we could go out in an hour or so?"

Generally we have a conversation at the weekend about what we're doing. On weekdays DH tends to say what nights are best for me to go running as I am more likely to know what stuff the DC are doing. Likewise I'll ask him when he is working close to home so I can plan my evenings around that, or ask him to get in for a particular time.

Just speak to each other.

I can see that there are different planning and communications styles, but I know what would happen if we didn't discuss our plans, and what has happened on the odd times we haven't, is that DH would go out to work, but I wouldn't know, so I'd take DD out on a bike ride, DH would get home, we wouldn't be there, so he would go out to B&Q for something, in the meantime we would get home and eat the last of the bread for lunch, DH would come home hungry and we would have just gone out again maybe to the shops, etc. etc. for the rest of the day, we'd probably all arrive back at the house at about teatime having not seen each other at all, and I would have bought bread but DH would have to go out again to the same shop I had just been to, but this time for milk as I wouldn't know he had used the last of it whilst I was out. Or we would find ourselves doing strange things like waving at each other across the petrol station forecourt as if we were just vague acquaintances.

I can understand that people have different lives and different styles of doing things, but if DH and I didn't plan, that's what our weekends would look like, and as we both work FT, we want to spend as much time as possible with DD at the weekend doing actual real stuff, so it really wouldn't work for us to not discuss up front what we were planning over the weekend. It feels to me like some kind of house share arrangement...

YANBU - its just normal courtesy. In my relationship we say that or something similar, just to inform each other. I would very very rarely say no, and the same for him - but occasionally we were relying on the other one to hold the fort for 5 minutes, or need to remind them of an engagement which they need to be back for.
DH and I discuss his work plans, as he is very flexible about going in or working from home. He would leave a note or text if he was going out and going to be a while, and I was on my way home.
I expect the same from my teenagers, they let us know when they will be out.
Actually in both cases its important as they may need to be reminded to take a key if its likely everyone else will be out. This is surely part of being a family rather than strangers sharing a house?

Do the same to him and see what happens

I think the problem is if one partner is going about their day without thinking about their shared responsibility for parenting.

I'm on mat leave at the moment and am simply never in a position to go anywhere or do anything without thinking about the baby, whereas DH can call at the pub after work for a drink, decide to go for a run before work etc completely autonomously. I would rarely want to stop him from doing those things but the inequity of the situation can be intensely irritating. I'm planning to start going to a regular exercise class in the evening just to start getting DH in the habit of knowing on certain days he has to be home at a set time, rather than being free to come and go whenever.

It sounds a bit like he's not quite grasping that you are there and would appreciate some communication, but at the same time he's assuming that his life will be run smoothly for him without him having to say anything.

it's left for me to call him and say when are you back, when do you want dinner

Don't call him then. Don't chase him. Make dinner when you feel like it; if he's back, fine, if he isn't he can shift for himself.

That makes sense Delia. We are nowhere near as active as that at the weekends so it's more of an exception if one of us goes out, with DS or not. We also tend to text or call if we're heading into a shop if we haven't seen the other to check if anything is needed, or if I was eating the last of something but DH was out, I'd call/text him and say that we'd finished the bread and could he pick something up.

Plus in fact just texting/calling anyway if we are wondering where the other is. And if either of us got home to an empty house, we'd tend to stretch out, enjoy the peace and relax rather than decide to go out again.

I'm just not sure that going for a run trumps everything because it is so virtuous. Surely it is equally valid to say, "I'm going to go and chill in the garden for an hour while you do breakfast and the kids".

DH trains a lot. We have had many a heated debate about this issue. These days he always asks. I had to turn the tables on him a few times before he got it though.

Sykadelic has said exactly what I think. If you were in the loo for example when he came down to go- would he have just left without checking where you were? Or would he come to find you to make sure you hadn't nipped out yourself?

YADNBU! It's posts like this that make me glad I'm a lesbian! It's totally unacceptable for my partner to pop out unannounced and leave me to dress, feed and entertain our two kids! Thankfully there is not the entrenched assumption that one of us is the default child carer.

I don't think this is a default carer thing at all. He is going out while everyone else is still in their pyjamas. I could understand the uproar if he was going out whilst there was loads of stuff to be done but it isn't interfering with the day at all.

If you want to go out, or for him to do something else, just tell him. Other than that its just bitterness and point scoring for the sake of it. Seems a lot of stress about not very much.

Yanbu. I agree with the earlier poster that it smacks of the father's default being self care and the mother's being care of the kids.

it smacks of the father's default being self care and the mother's being care of the kids

To me it smacks of one making use of time that the other one is doing nothing at all with. He sounds organised & the OP sounds resentful of that.

If her & the kids were stood there with their coats on and he did it, fair enough. But to sit there in your PJ's and complain seems quite shallow to me.

And as for It's posts like this that make me glad I'm a lesbian

MN proves every single hour that women can be arseholes too - I'm sure you'll have couple/parenting issues that a hetero couple won't.

Doesn't mean your relationship is going to be any better!!

I'm the mother and the default carer, but I do the Sunday morning run thing. The DCs are young but old enough to entertain themselves in front of the TV so are low maintenance at that time of day, although need a little intervention for things like breakfast. I naturally wake earlier than DH who just wants to linger in bed, so it makes sense to use that time slot.

I don't ask permission as such, but I consult. If he has a plan, then I'll adapt around it, so it might be being back at X time so he can do some DIY. This week my run didn't happen at all because he was going away with work too early for me to comfortably return in time. (I'm now the solo parent for most of the week).

Our general policy is it's Ok to do something as long as we consult and it's logistically viable. If I'm in doubt about what he's doing, I'll check.

I don't ask permission as such, but I consult

I think this is the sensible and courteous thing to do. Neither DP nor I would just swan off to do our own thing without at least making sure the other person knew and didn't have any objections.

Being in the house with the children, responsible for their care, is not the same as doing nothing at all or being in the house on your own. Whether they're in their PJs or asleep in their beds, someone has to be there and if you can just leave without even saying you are going you are clearly not the one feeling responsible for being in the house with them.

I'm not saying he shouldn't go. I'm saying he should demonstrate recognition of the fact someone needs to stay in the house with the kids by courteously discussing that he wants to go for a run and checking that this doesn't interfere with anyone else's plans.

YANBU. Is common courtesy as others have said.

Not necessary as such but being asked/asking is polite, and oils the wheels of family life, IMHO.

Also it makes explicit for the DC that consideration and manners are expected between everyone.

He is leaving the OP responsible for ensuring the kids have breakfast, the kitchen is tidied up, they are showered/washed, teeth cleaned, hair brushed, dressed. She's not going to be sitting on her arse is she?

It is easy for the non default parent to start believing that the Domestic Minutiae Fairy takes care of this sort of stuff. Sometimes they need a gentle reminder.

He is leaving the OP responsible for ensuring the kids have breakfast, the kitchen is tidied up, they are showered/washed, teeth cleaned, hair brushed, dressed. She's not going to be sitting on her arse is she?

Why not? He can come back from his run, sort the kids out & then have a shower while the OP has another cup of tea or goes for her own run etc.

The OP didn't at any point say that he didn't do anything just that she said is would be "nice to be asked" before he went for a run.

That's the AIBU - not "My lazy husband is running all the time & neglecting the children"

Well, IKnowWhereIAm - it IS nice to be asked!! It is nice to feel like your needs and feelings are being considered. It's basic manners and kindness. Slightly baffled by how hard it is for you to get your head round it!