Scottish identity

[chocoluvva]

Do you feel you have one?

If you're not Scottish living in Scotland, do you think there is a Scottish identity?

Sorry to post and run and I admit I haven't RTFT yet, but the only time I ever see the phrase 'a proper Scot' is from No supporters claiming that Yes supporters have told them they are not, if they don't support independence. I support independence but wouldn't dream of being so patronising as to tell people what a 'proper Scot' is. The phrase/variations piss me right off tbh. If someone's actually been told this and it's not just an urban myth, I'd like to hear it ...

A common yes-voter accusation was that no voters were being selfish, voting no only because they thought they'd be out of pocket, happy to put their economic interests before the yes voters desire for a more just and fair society.

OOAOML I also feel more British since the Referendum. Although that might also be due to going abroad. Its interesting what you say about its personal effect on you, as being totally fed up with the Referendum, nationalism and the SNP was the major reason I accepted thus opportunity to move away.

I've also encountered what I call the "Celtic whimsy" attitude from people who've never lived in Scotland but imagine it to be full of ladies called Morag who waft about in Highland Glens in the mist, and fancy themselves a Celtic connection.

goin - I can assure you its not an urban myth. I hope that puts your mind at ease and reassures you that it's not simply a empty claim. Interesting that you chose to believe it was such a thing - why was that?

During the referendum campaign I felt No voters were almost being shamed for their stance. In the aftermath I saw plenty of bitter, nasty reactions that did include being told I should be ashamed, no voters should never sing O' Flower of Scotland because we were traitors and other very nasty things. Quite frankly any pride I had in being Scottish was squashed by all of that attitude and by the inability of people to understand that they got their sodding referendum (like they wanted) and it didn't go their way.

I think everyone has got anecdotes to show that there were small numbers on both the Yes and No sides who behaved pretty badly. In general though I thought the whole thing was remarkably good natured.

I've always felt Scottish, I've never considered myself British and I did vote yes for independence. My own parents voted no but my brother, my DP and all of my friends proudly voted yes.

It must have been very frustrating for long-time snp supporters to be so near to getting independence but not achieve it.

Imagine if there had been a small majority yes vote though - almost half the electorate unwillingly taken out of the UK. A difficult start you'd think.

I got called a traitor a few times during the referendum. The only time it really bothered me was when there was a photo of me at an event and someone made really rude comments about me. Criticise my political beliefs if you want, but not the fact I am an overweight woman. That one made me cry, the rest I didn't bother about.
I also saw quite a few FB rants about not singing Flower of Scotland again if you voted No. I thought about it and actually I'm not comfortable with singing it. But then I don't go to big sports events so it isn't really an issue.
I did go and look at Yes Scotland FB pages sometimes and I didn't see the same level of attack there. But comments on the local paper website from both sides got pretty vile, and the abuse Andy Murray got for supporting Yes was unforgivable.

The only people I've come across who think it was anywhere close to being a "good natured" event are YES voters. No NO voter I know (nearly all my friends) has that view and many have suffered abuse if they spoke up or were too scared to say what they were voting.

My DH was told by numerous people he considered friends to f* off back home (he's from a commonwealth country but has lived here for 20 years). There's every chance we will indeed take up their suggestion in the event of another referendum. I personally have been called a coward, traitor unScottish, paedophile sympathiser, hysterical liar (by local YES shop) and idiot (SNP campaigner on my own drive way).

In answer to the OPs question I did feel very Scottish (born and lived in the central belt all my life, parent was 1st language gaelic speaker) however like many other posters this has been massively eroded by the behaviour and attitudes of others. I cringe at the site of a Saltire now which makes me feel so sad.

Nolassie - quite agree. No 'No' voters I cam across in RL or on the forums thought it was 'good natured' or 'pleasant' - quite the opposite.

Itsall - yes, everyone has their anecdotes. However, one of the recurring themes coming across from the more vociferous Yes voters was the issue of nationality or national identity, ie that if you weren't voting that way you were a traitor, not fit to sing Flower of Scotland, not a proper Scottish and so on and on. It's interesting that's the thing that they focussed on - the "fucking Tory lackey" claim was water off a ducks back quite frankly, but there was definitely a hijacking of the Scottish identity from the Yes side, amid accusations that you were letting Scotland down if you didn't vote that way.

yes, everyone has their anecdotes. However, one of the recurring themes coming across from the more vociferous Yes voters was the issue of nationality or national identity, ie that if you weren't voting that way you were a traitor, not fit to sing Flower of Scotland, not a proper Scottish and so on and on.
That is your anecdote, and is not the same as my (and some other PPs on this thread) experience. I will say it again, I experienced much nastier abuse from vocal No voters, in my work place no less. I'm sure it wasn't nice for you to be called a traitor. It was equally unpleasant to me to be called an idiot. It was also unpleasant for my vote to be 'boiled down to blind nationalism' (another insult I had flung at me) rather than taking time to understand differing points of view as I attempted to do.

It's not 'my' anecdote - it's the experience of many No voters (including many on this thread). The issue of national identity and nationality was jumped on and used as a way of insulting No voters - interestingly, it didn't work the other way.

My anecdote fyi was being called a fucking Tory lackey.

And many Yes supporters also experienced horrific abuse. As I said earlier, this was a minority, the majority of the campaign was good natured. There is no point going around in circles claiming "your" side was most abused - both Yes and No can no doubt find several verifiable examples to back this up, and its not a particularly constructive discussion as it always ends in bitterness and acrimony.

Broadly half the Scottish population wanted independence, half didn't. Each side felt incredibly passionately that they were right. A PP is correct, its a good thing it wasn't a Yes with a slim margin as that would certainly have been difficult.

I have already said that I agree there were faults on both sides - several times. However, my point is not which side was abused most - my point (which goes back upthread) is about the consistent theme of the accusation from the Yes side which was that the No voters are traitors, not real Scots etc etc and is specifically related to the claimed link that has developed since the referendum which is that Scottishness is synonymous with wanting independence, and why some many of us find ourselves questionning what is meant by Scottish, when it appears to have been hijacked for political purposes. This is an experience which was replicated across boards (such as this one) and in RL - and as I said, did not work the other way for the reason I have just given.

There were plenty of No voters on here during the referendum campaign and noone was shutting them up. This thread is pretty anti Scottish now from many of the No voters. Cheer up, you won!

well someone did gleefully tell us to book removal vans star but I don't think anyone on this thread is trying to shut people up.

Where in my post did I say that this thread was shutting them up?

Plenty of mud was thrown. On both sides. The idea that one side was worse than the other is an argument better suited to a playground.

I agree Set. But there is hell of a lot of huffiness from some of the No voters on here, which is rather amusing given that they won.

I'm enjoying the GE, it's the most interesting for years.

I'm really enjoying it too but it feels weird having all this focus on Scotland. Far more used to being ignored. I suppose because until now it was just accepted that Scotland would always be Labour.

I think that felt part of my identity - to get back to the OP.

You might want to reread that post

Shutting up? Anti Scottish?
What do you mean, precisely?

Oh - and I missed the huffiness. Again, what do you mean by that?