To not want DD to have play-dates or attend parties in certain areas due to safety concerns?

[HourOrTwo]

She is 7. Until now she only has playdates with friends whose parents we know well, but now she has a bigger group of friends. Some of these friends live on local council estates. One of these estates has a particularly bad reputation (drug problems, unemployment, high crime rate). When I drove through it recently I noticed kids playing out in street, groups of youths standing around smoking and drinking, big dogs in studded collars roaming around (no muzzles), rubbish everywhere etc. I don't mean to sound judgemental but it's not the sort of place we want DD playing or walking around.

We're happy for DD's friends to come play at ours, and we want her to socialise with children from social different backgrounds... but recently she's been invited on several play-dates on these estates plus a party. So far I've made excuses, as I don't want her playing out unsupervised and TBH don't like her going to houses unless I know the parents and trust them to keep a close eye on her. Even if I chatted to these mums at school gates and they promise to supervise, I don't want her going to houses where anyone is smoking, drinking or teenage siblings are coming in and out with their mates, or any household with a dangerous dog (there are a lot of pitbulls and rottweilers on the estate), but I can't really ask this.

How do we politely decline these play-dates without offending anyone? Is there a way we can have DD's friends at our house without her going to their houses? And what do I tell DD, without mentioning it's because of the area her friends live?

Zing That was my experience too - not just of my DC but their friends.

"I have anxieties and intrusive thoughts but there's a limit."

Agree with this ^.

I have some pretty ingrained anxieties, but I made a determined effort not to pass them on to my children.

Caspian, of course that is awful. Your DSC seems to have had more than her fair share of dodgy play dates though. I don't recall any of my four having those sort of experiences.

OP I am totally with you on the unsupervised dogs, and even on the providing food your child will like. You lose me on the teenagers though.

I think how most people deal with this issue is to host first, and suss the other Mum out over a nice cup of tea. When my teens started high school, sleepover invitations were being exchanged before I had even met the parents. I found it really helpful to invite the parents who were dropping off, in for a cup of tea; it reassures everyone.

Betty my friends and I used to babysit my brothers and sisters all the time as teens. They loved it. They're all still in touch with my friends now. Frankly I have seen many fifteen year old babysitters with more responsibility than some parents!

same here parsnip

With food, I usually ask DSD to find out what friend likes/dislikes a few days before play date. Its annoying to cook a meal and have kid reject it, so I prefer to cook something I know they'll eat. DSD will not eat peas, mushrooms or cheese in any form (!) so I do try and warn mums in advance, especially if it's a sleepover. I've tried everything to get her to eat these things but she'd sooner go hungry. The cheese aversion makes it tricky as it rules out things like pizza, but most mums are understanding accommodate it. A couple of mums have texted me a list of foods their DC dislike, I admit it gets irritating when the list has about 10 things on it!

OP I'm really sorry to hear about your experiences but I think you are projecting your fear of teenagers onto your DD. they aren't all like that.

Sorry you didn't have a calm quiet safe environment as a kid but you do need to acquire a grip.

Re this:

If you have a friend over for dinner, wouldn't you ask what things they like/dislike? Or would you just cook something you like and tell them they have to fit in with you?

All my friends eat whatever is being cooked! There's the odd veggie but otherwise people just eat whatever. Most people like most things, if someone asked what I liked I'd have to just say: erm, food?!

As to smokers, I don't care that much as long as they aren't blowing smoke at DC. I have some lovely friends who a) are brilliant with kids and b) smoke.

As doragora says if you aren't happy you don't let your child go.

I can sit here in judgement like many others because dc go to a school in a naice area. If your instincts say no its a no.

I wonder how many would tell you it was perfectly rational to refuse to let her stay over at grannies.

MN is a strange strange place.

But pay a bit more attention to how you phrase the op is my advice.

Perhaps get to know the mums better is the only real advice?

You are conflating completely separate issues and making yourself sound like an ignorant, judgmental, classist snob.

If you'd just hold on there and separate out the actual issues from the general 'Err people who live in XXX postcode are criminals and I'm scared of them'

The ridiculous thing is you have a point but for some reason want to mix this in with some scary class based 'otherness'.

And no YANBU as the way you demonise a whole section of society means you really shouldn't bother to get near them.

Which council estate is it OP?

I very much doubt the parents would let their kids play where they will come to harm or let your dd play where she will come to harm. How do you know where they will let them play, have you asked? Your just making assumptions because its a council estate so are making assumptions about their parenting skills because they live on a council estate. I have lived on council estates all my life, 3 in poor working class area's and tbh i have hardly seen any of the things you have mentioned, So these estates have dogs with studded collars running loose all over, big groups of teenagers drinking in the street, parent's smoking and drinking where their DC's are, they are not capable of making meals for a play date, the houses who have asked your DD to visit have big groups of teenagers who might torment your dd? (how do you know this ?), there are heroin addicts all over with syringes?

I have a teenager who has friend's round, a tween who has friend's round and a 5yr old who has friend's round, why on earth would someone stop their kids coming to my house because my teenager has friend's round? Why would they assume my teenager and her friends would be drinking and smoking and tormenting DD's friends, they think their annoying little shit's tbh and tell them to stay out their room, why on earth would they torment them.

What are you going to do every time someone invites your dd for a play date, vet them, you would need to ask them...

Have you got a fierce looking dog with a studded collar
If so where will you put it if my dd comes?
Have you got a drink or drug's problem, do any of your neighbours?
Does anyone drink alcohol in your street? Please ensure they don't
Have you got teenager's, have they got a drink or drugs problem
Do you monitor your teens friends to ensure they are of sound character
If you have teens will you ensure your teens and their friends don't come into their house so as not to upset my DD, tell them to stay away
Can you cook, can you please tell me in advance what you will be preparing for my DD so i can tell you if it is ok

There is no way i would be inviting your DD to my house with my teenager and my dog, honestly, it would be too much of an ordeal, i would just invite someone else instead.

The problem with the argument that "there could be addiction problems anywhere" is that, though as a statement it's entirely true, when there are addiction problems in a "naice" area, the addict tends to be more of an isolated user and/or more adept at covering it up/hiding paraphernalia etc and there doesn't tend to be access to dirty needles etc. I know this because my father was an addict. There's a huge difference in the type of risk between having someone who is an addict around the place, and being in a place where there are dirty needles in communal public areas. This does not make someone in my father's situation any less addicted, and of course his behaviour was often fucking appalling BUT it does change the type of risk an outsider would be likely to be subjected to.

When people are using in such a way that these sorts of social cover ups have fallen to pieces, usually they have lost a lot of the income that allows them to live in a "naice" area and life is more chaotic and unpredictable. This I know both from work and from my many years in Nar-Anon/Al Anon and family rehab treatment groups. The reality is that when there are visible signs of drug use within an area, that area is far riskier than an area where drugs are stigmatised - even if there are as many addicts in the same area. This is partially to do with social contract and what happens when that breaks down.

For future reference. Stop conflating completely separate things!

You are right in that I wouldn't send my child to a family I didn't trust, but that should be where you stop.

Why pile on the misguided stereotypes and fear? It's all a bit odd really.

Teenagers x=X out of control violent or threatening drunk yobs.

Dogs x=X uncontrolled and damaged weaponised pounds of flesh

People who live on council estates x=X binge drinking drug taking irresponsible cigarette smoking adults who don't look after their kids

Why don't you get to know people as individuals, and stop getting caught up in pointless stereotypes, which are not helping you much. Families that live in actually high crime areas (vs perceived), will have their own ways of minimising risk, in the same way someone living by a river will have developed habits & behaviours to live safely alongside it! And if you get to know them you'll realise that.

And if you really can't see through the cliquey group to people, and they really are sneering and laughing at you - well, those aren't the right people to know really are they!

I had a family member I was really jealous of (Iiving on an estate n all). They had big fancy house on a posh road, I was jealous right up to the point the house was raided and they were arrested for running a brothel from it. But hey you would havd loved to have sent your ds there it looked so FANCY

Dd sorry

miscellaneous has it in one.

Duplodon, interesting points. I agree that visible signs of drug abuse make an area more risky. I guess it also attracts more drug-users, dealers and more criminals in general.

Misc, I'm sure families do develop strategies to minimise risk, but the risks are still there.

Once DSD hits puberty I'm not sure we'd want her going to sleepovers if there were lots of teenage boys sleeping over in same house. For a sleepover I think it's reasonable to ask the mum who else will be sleeping in house, whether teenagers will have friends/boyfriends over etc.

OP I think the best thing you can do, wherever your DD goes, is make sure she has a mobile on her and can use it to text/call you if she ever feels uneasy or threatened. That way you can pick her up early if anything goes wrong.

Casp I agree, young teenagers and sleepovers are a minefield. When mine were younger I had a rule that DS and DD could not have sleepovers at the same time. My rather convoluted reasoning being that I could trust DS and DD but I didn't want their friends getting off with each other under my roof. Now they are 21 and 19 and still have friends stop over, but to be honest, they can do as they please as adults. Actually, no one has ever done anything untoward.

Most dodgy thing that happened with my teens was one of DD1's male friends from college getting quite chatty with DD2 when he was hanging out here. Poor lad shyly confessed to DD1 he liked her sister. Only thing was he assumed she was about 17 and she is in fact 15. He has had so much stick from their crowd.

Op has no idea if there are teenagers going in and out the house though, she just assumes there are because it's a council estate, posh estates have teenagers going in and out of houses as well you know or are they ok because they are a 'better class' of teenagers.

Do you ask dd's friends from the private estate's parents if they have teens?

Honestly, the way you describe what you imagine your DD will face just boggles the mind: "tormented by groups of teenagers or drunks on the street." Do you really think this is what she will unquestionably encounter if she visits a friend who lives on a council estate? Really?

Kids playing out on the street?! OH MY GOD, WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TOO!!!!

• duplodon Mon 27-Apr-15 19:40:12

Brilliant post - again - duplodon that peeps are ignoring, again.

OP your vilification of teenagers is incredibly sad.

People don't represent a threat potential threat to your dd just because they are aged between 12 and 20 any more than they do over forty or under ten . Would you expect your playdate families to keep all grandparents out of the house during your dd's visits? Or people with less than 3 A levels? Or people who haven't had a CRB check? Or people with short hair? (No, I guess because that would be ridiculous and you wouldn't want to stereotype and cast aspersions about an entirely disparate group of people, would you?)

You were a teenager once. Your dd will be one. Chances are some of the people who may have cared for your dd in preschool, nursery or as babysitters may have been teens too. How can she look forward positively towards her own future if she is given the impression that she needs to avoid an entire age cohort of the population?

Yes; please do try to get past this - quite uncharacteristic - group you knew. If for no other reason than that you simply cannot expect other people to chuck their older kids' friends out. In a few years' time a lot of them will have teenage siblings. Almost all of whom will be perfectly pleasant.

HourOrTwo are all these comments helping you to evaluate the risk you think might exist?

Seem to be quite a few angry answers! Mumsnet is for support. Hope you have had some answers that were helpful, if you are still reading.

Italian there are angry answers because the OP's original post was written in such a way that made it explicitly clear she is judging people on where they live, and many of us took exception to that, either because we have grown up or currently live in such places, or because we are simply rational human beings. Her posts since then have done nothing to dispel that.

As for 'mumsnet is for support'. I take it you have been on AIBU before?