To not want DD to have play-dates or attend parties in certain areas due to safety concerns?

[HourOrTwo]

She is 7. Until now she only has playdates with friends whose parents we know well, but now she has a bigger group of friends. Some of these friends live on local council estates. One of these estates has a particularly bad reputation (drug problems, unemployment, high crime rate). When I drove through it recently I noticed kids playing out in street, groups of youths standing around smoking and drinking, big dogs in studded collars roaming around (no muzzles), rubbish everywhere etc. I don't mean to sound judgemental but it's not the sort of place we want DD playing or walking around.

We're happy for DD's friends to come play at ours, and we want her to socialise with children from social different backgrounds... but recently she's been invited on several play-dates on these estates plus a party. So far I've made excuses, as I don't want her playing out unsupervised and TBH don't like her going to houses unless I know the parents and trust them to keep a close eye on her. Even if I chatted to these mums at school gates and they promise to supervise, I don't want her going to houses where anyone is smoking, drinking or teenage siblings are coming in and out with their mates, or any household with a dangerous dog (there are a lot of pitbulls and rottweilers on the estate), but I can't really ask this.

How do we politely decline these play-dates without offending anyone? Is there a way we can have DD's friends at our house without her going to their houses? And what do I tell DD, without mentioning it's because of the area her friends live?

Shrunken I can't work out if you're being serious or not :s

'Shelters are full of them because idiots buy them as fighting dogs and then realise they've wasted their money as they're too soppy to fight anything'

I wouldn't want my kids around a dog that has been bought as a fighting dog even if it didn't fight. It's probably been mistreated and goaded into fighting, made to hang onto tree branches to develop its jaw muscles etc. I don't care if the breed is not 'aggressive' by nature, any dog that has been trained to fight/display aggression is dangerous. And a bite from a Staffie is nasty, they were bred to control bulls so are strong and muscular.

Anyway the OP said they were pitbulls not Staffies!

oven chips and smiley faces are some of my favourite foods! I don't like nuggets though, much prefer fish fingers. unfortunately my DCs like having a proper meal each day. so that means I have to cook! instead of just throwing something in the oven.

parsnip I agree with you re staffies, they get a really bad rep and it's almost always not justified.
IME little dogs like chihuahuas and Yorkshire terriers are the most vicious little things, I've been chased and bitten by a few Yorkies as a kid so I get a little jumpy around them, though I have met several lovely little dogs, I've just found them to be more yappy and snappy.
But because nice rich middle class people tend to own them people see them as cute, whereas dogs like staffies are usually walked by men wearing baseball caps so people automatically think they're aggressive fighting dogs. I've yet to meet one that hasn't been soft and daft as a brush. Maybe the owners don't keep them for status symbol, but just because they're nice dogs.

Oh dear OP, we live on a naice, middle class housing estate, green leafy, lovely, think toy town. Our kids all run feral, the 7 year old is currently limited to the cul-de-sac, his teenage siblings god forbid have free reign and frequently tip up with lots and lots of their lovely friends. We love the fact that they are all happy to come here. We love the freedom that our children have. We love the fact that the mummies can sit and drink a large glass of wine or three whilst all our children run around unsupervised. Oh and we have two ginormous utterly dopey and stupid dogs. We sound like your worst nightmare don't' we. My point is OP, that the area they live in is utterly irrelevant. Stop judging a book by its cover and have a bit of faith in humanity. Bad things rarely happen.

They are more likely to be Staffordshire Bull terriers as Pit bulls are a banned breed or you need a special licence and they have to wear a muzzle. They still do that hanging from trees thing to make their jaws stronger though.

CookPass exactly, I have a scar on my face from a sodding jack Russell!

Caspian you know absolutely nothing about dogs. All staffies hang off tree branches, it's their natural behaviours. My family owns 2 rescued staffies, they are absolutely lovely and fantastic family pets. They are actually one of only two breeds recommended by the kennel club as being suitable for all ages.

This is a class thing. The dogs are seen as aggressive because of their owners, which is in itself a horribly judgmental attitude to have.

Frankly I would rather have my DC around a staffie than around the OP.

My point is that I don't know these mums and therefore don't trust them.

Only skimmed thread and am sure it has mutated in true MN style by now . Take away all the other stuff, council estates, drugs, pitbulls and so on. THIS ^ is your main gripe, you do not know....you do not know how to find out either and what you have seen you dont like.

I would certainly let her attend the party, see if you can get a clearer idea from pick up and drop off re attitudes....and basically if your un happy simply do not let her go for play dates.

I think most of us would like to have some inkling of the house our DC are going too? The mums etc and on that basis that you do not know, just say NO.

There is NO WAY I want my 7 year old in a house I don't know possibly being looked after by teenagers and left to roam in a street. No way. I say that as a child who was frequently looked after by teenage siblings and I know what went on. I would not want that for DD but then again, where I lived, it was known for 10 year olds to given acid tabs. .

the mums from the estates all stand together and seem to sneer at other mums a bit

I'm not surprised if they're all as snobbish as you. Maybe you and your friends with their nice 'clean' children give off slightly hostile vibes?

Just get to know them, if you're concerned.

Are staffies still a status dog? Maybe it's just where I live, but all the macho types now seem to have husky type dogs, and the staffies I encounter seem to be with pensioners.

No Saskia they are not. It's just snobs who know nothing about dogs that think they are.

To everyone saying it's purely about not playing out alone and the area is irrelevant... the area isn't irrelevant. While I wouldn't like my DD to play out on our village-green unsupervised, I'd consider it far less risky than playing out on one of the estates in question. I'm not making generalisations about all council estates. I'm just referring to what I observed driving through these particular estates, and to local statistics on crime and drug abuse.

If I befriended one of the mums, and she agreed it's dangerous for kids to play out around drug-addicts, dirty needles, drunk youths, loose dogs etc (and reassured me she never let her own DC out without supervision) I'd be ok with DD going on a playdate at her house. My fears have nothing to do with social class but they are influenced by the area. I want DD to mix with children of all classes and backgrounds. Its about her being safe while she plays. Sorry to anyone who was a teenage babysitter, but I just don't consider a teenage sibling a 'responsible adult' for supervising a playdate. I would expect the mum to be there and I'd need to know mum well enough to make this clear before the play-date.

One thing I found odd when DD's friends from the estates came to play, none of the 5 mums had any questions or instructions re the playdate. I asked them beforehand what their DD likes to eat, what she's allowed to do/not do at home, any anxieties, any special requirements etc but they seemed to think this a bit odd. Apart from one who had an allergy, they had no information, requests or questions. I'm used to mums asking lots of questions before a first playdate so was surprised. This made me think maybe things are done differently in different circles, and maybe this group of mums would think it inappropriate/fussy if I gave them instructions about DD prior to a playdate? Eg. DD is scared of dogs, will not eat certain foods, can't watch scary films (she has nightmares) and is timid around teenagers, e.g. I know she'd get anxious if there was a big group of teenagers hanging out in the house especially if they were drunk and noisy.

JugglingLife... sadly bad things DO happen to some kids, particularly when roaming unsupervised in areas where they're likely to come into contact with criminals, intoxicated people and environmental hazards like dangerous dogs and dirty needles.

I live on a small posh estate. All the kids who live here run wild play out in the cul de sac. If DS has a play date, I check with the parents that it's OK, though TBH, I wouldn't be keen on play dates that meant DS(8) was obliged to stay in.

I have three older teens/a 21 year old, so yes, the place often resembles a drop in centre. I have definitely noticed visiting little ones sometimes look a bit anxious about all the teens, but it very quickly wears off. I think it's nice for them to see that teenagers are not really scary.

OP. PFB. Special snowflake syndrome.

Your DC should eat what she's given when she is at someone else's house (allergies and dietary requirements aside obviously). My mum would never have dreamed of saying 'oh parsnip won't eat broccoli'.

Also frankly if your DC is scared of dogs the best thing for her would be to be around one so she realises there's nothing to be scared of. I speak from experience. I was terrified of them until we got our rottie.

Parsnip, IMO it's polite to ask what someone's child likes to eat. Lots of kids are fussy eaters/vegetarian/only eat halal/have allergies etc. Don't most people check with the parent before a playdate??
I always make sure DD's friends like what I'm cooking and I adapt if necessary. I want kids in my house to feel happy and relaxed, not pressured into eating broccoli!

Tinkly, maybe its just me but I don't feel it's appropriate to have big groups of teens in the house when a 7-year-old has a play-date. I disagree teenagers are 'not really scary', many are and some are mean or cruel to younger kids. I don't want DD being teased and taunted by a group of teenagers on a play-date. If I had a teenager and DD had a friend to play, I'd tell teenager to have his/her friends round a different day and let the little ones have some space.

Thinking about my DCs friendships. DD has a friend from a notorious council estate. As a teen she has been to stay, been around adults smoking, eaten crappy takeaway and told me the house was pretty dirty. She also knows the Mum is really ill and struggles to manage. I think she has learned a lot about life from hanging out there. Her friend has a fantastic relationship with her Mum.

She has another friend who lives in a very nice house. Dad has a good job but is basically a (barely) functioning alcoholic. Older sister is a recovering heroin addict.

I guess what I'm saying is that you have to judge each situation on it's merits, not look at the surface.

Jesus Christ OP. Get a bag of grips.

No, I expect DC's friends to eat what I'm cooking. If they don't like it they can leave what they don't like. Same attitude I employ with DC.

My younger siblings absolutely adored my friends when I was a teenager. They are still in touch now. They look out for my younger siblings like I do. I think you are utterly prejudiced.

Its about her being safe while she plays.

YY, we live on a so called dangerous road actually, dangerous with busy traffic AND there have been thefts, assaults young and old drunks hanging round.

If anyone had concerns about where I live they would be entirely justified. Its just I am used to it, I have had to call police out many a time due to violence, fighting etc. Drunks crashing into our front door, our car, climbing on it bricks through windows, front doors smashed in

Chatting about this to another Mum who lives on a quiet cul de sac where the most exciting thing that happens is Jack at 22 twitching his curtains I noticed her astounded face.

I have become accustomed to it all, other people live in very quiet roads/areas. Yes there is crime, yes mums may all be coke addicts but its not as in your face as some places, and I think understanding that would do everyone a favour.

My mother came from a rough estate herself, and as a consequence, didn't let me play with kids of various families in our town when I was growing . I was merciless to her about her snobbery when my sister came up after me. So my sister was allowed make friendships with all sorts of people I wasn't. It wasn't all plain sailing. My sister ended up in some very sticky situations in her early teens in people'e houses where there was freely available drink and drugs.

It's easy to just call snobbery, but peer relationships are massively more influential as time goes on and there are a range of people who are living in poverty who do lead chaotic, unpredictable and sometimes dangerous lives as well as people who are living stable, ordinary lives. It is just naivety to think otherwise. I work in a social care context now and I have every compassion, love and understanding for people in extreme circumstances as no one really chooses to live like that... But would I let my kids play at these houses? No.

I think in this case, you don't have information, just fear.. But it is equally silly to pretend toxic living environments don't have the capacity to create toxic situations and to ignore gut instincts of discomfort and unease based purely on the idea there are no differences between people. I would want to know more. My usual marker is to watch how people are with their kids. If there are signs of coercion and fear in their school gate interactions, I would discourage further contact. I see this all the time at our school gates.. Parents who drag kids, or roar at them or tell them to shut up as soon as look at them.

Thanks Parsnip :)

Agree OP you are wrapping her in cotton wool.
If you brought her to mine and told me she doesn't like broccoli, x, y and z I would think you were overbearing, fussy and a little bit rude tbh. And if I had planned to cook broccoli, I still would and would serve it to your dd. A child eating halal, vegetarian or having an allergy is totally different.

I think you need to relax a little bit with what your dd is exposed to because you are bringing her up to very sheltered and it won't do her any good in the long run. I'm not suggesting you let drug dealers babysit for her, but I don't see what harm it would do her to play in the street in front of your house with friends or be served a meal that she doesn't like.

Also the kids living on the council estate seem to be surviving fine living where they do, and are obviously nice enough for your dd to make friends with. The area might have a reputation for this and that, but it's not living hell growing up on an estate. They're more likely to just have more common sense and be slightly street wise than your dd who is being babied, IMO.