To think this woman is at best misguided and at worst disgusting?

[Totality22]

Will try to be brief.

I was introduced to a friend of a friend who is ebf her DS (about 10 weeks) and it came up in conversation that she drinks a bottle of wine in one evening once / twice a week. She was unashamed but made it clear she didn't neck it back (drinks it over the course 4-5 hours)

Once I picked my jaw up off the floor the conversation had moved on but I am still thinking about it days later.

I like a drink, can happily open a bottle and finish it the same evening [over the course of a good few hours, like the lady in question]. I had a glass of champers when 8 months pregnant so I am certainly not adverse to the notion of drinking / pregnancy / BF'ing.

AIBU to find this woman shocking though?

To not drip feed woman is a medical professional not trained in UK and currently a SAHP here, her husband is a Dr, she is not English [culturally I assume this may be relevant as maybe the info is different to here?], and she did this with her first baby who is now 5 and perfectly fine.

Oh ridiculous. Better some slightly boozy breastmilk than that formula crap imo.

Writerwannabe83 - I think that is rather unfair. It isn't about alcohol being some necessary part of life. It is about being told that you need to restrict something perfectly normal that you enjoy. I would feel similarly if I was told no chocolate, or no beef, or no cheese. Yes, all things it would be easy to remove from my diet, but why would I unless they are harmful. And removing them under duress contributes to that feeling of burden, of being policed, that is so fucking tedious in pregnancy. I have been pregnant, or bfing, or both for nearly 7 years. That is a long time to go without something you enjoy.

The drinking levels described are excessive for anyone as a regular thing, obviously.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound unfair. My response was aimed specifically at the subject of the OP (the woman who drinks a bottle of wine over 5-6 hours a few nights a week) not as a general view of women who have a few glasses of wine a week.

There's a big difference though between having a glass of wine and drinking a bottle of wine isn't there?

Maybe the OP should step back and ask why the woman is having so much alcohol/binge drinking? The new mom may be struggling and in need of some support.

Fair enough. Yes, that woman sounds to be drinking excessively. I do object to the slightly hysterical OP over the fact that she's bfing though . That level of drinking is a worry because it is a worry, and is probably a sign of a problem. Independent of bfing.

" I think if a woman chooses not to breast feed because she can't cope with the thought or practicality of not being able to have alcohol for such a tiny window of time then that's quite disheartening."

Firstly it's not necessarily a "tiny window of time". If mums feed for a year or longer, and have more than one child, it can easily go on for years.

I have been BFing for 6 years now. It'll probably be 8 years by the time I've finished, add on the first pregnancy, and that's 9 years.

Also, the reality is that wanting to be able to drink again is a factor in lots of mums weaning IMO. Not always the main reason, but certainly a factor. When mums talk about "wanting to get their body back" it can mean a huge range of things, but sometimes that can include being free to have a drink e.g. wanting to be able to go out without the faff of pumping and dumping (a futile and time-consuming exercise, but a popular practice that people think they need to do).

I've also heard several mums wanting to wean before a big event (like a wedding). They felt it was time to wean anyway, and the event gave them a date to aim for, but had they not wanted to drink at the event, would they have have made such an effort to wean by that date? Probably not. Don't forget the minimum recommended age is 2 years. But we live in a culture where weaning is encouraged much earlier, and the health of our children (overall) is compromised as a result.

If mums restrict themselves in lots of ways when breastfeeding, then it is yet one more bit of pressure to wean early. This can be very subtle pressure - or less so ...

A mum I know actually said to me when DS was 5 months "are you still feeding him? You need to get him off the boob, so you can go out and have a good night!".

I nodded and ignored.

The thing that always gets me is when women drink 'just' a glass or two every now and then while pregnant and then avoid it when breastfeeding.... It's as if somehow seeing and holding their baby while breastfeeding is somehow more of a reminder that there is a baby involved here... Weird. Drinking while pregnant is crazy and dangerous in my opinion, it's the equivalent of giving a foetus a straight glass of wine (or whatever) and expecting it's underformed kidneys to process it, which they can't. Drinking while breastfeeding is incomparable. As others have said, it's the equivalent (or less) as giving a baby (not a foetus) with better developed kidneys a glass of orange juice. How can anyone compare the two?! So OP I'm also in the camp of YABVU. Hopefully the links in this thread have helped you understand this. And as some others have said, the risks of drinking are more to do with the safety of caring for the baby. I imagine she isn't a co-sleeper. Well I hope she isn't!

"I think for the minority of us on this thread the thought of a woman drinking alcohol while BF is just something that somehow is unappealing"

I find the idea of children's health being compromised by being weaned early because of all sorts of spurious demands being made of mothers much, much more unappealing.

Do you think I should not have drunk alcohol for the last 6 years?

Go take your jaw and sod off. Possibly hide your dropped jaw under your judgemental, sticky beak.

It isnt like giving a foetus a glass of wine. If you can't grasp basic biology, you dont really get to have an opinion.

My Dd didn't sleep and gp suggested I drink wine. It may get to her through my milk but not enough to harm her but more likely it would relax me a bit and that would relax my baby. Seemed to actually help me (not sure dd slept any better). Dd is now 7 and top of her class with no alcohol dependency that I'm aware of.
Stop judging others.

I've just realised I posted on another thread of the OP' s about drinking after breastfeeding. She was worried (she had already drunk and her expressed milk had been spilt or something), everyone reassured her and she went ahead and did it (and I think coslept as well?). OP, are you feeling guilty about that and looking to find someone 'worse' to make you feel better? Because you don't need to.

U2, it's not her friend - it's a friend of a friend. And it came up in a conversation - it's not as though the OP witnessed it or was affected by it. It's one thing to have an opinion - it's another thing to be Judgy McJudgePerson, which the OP was.

I remember that thread. I didn't think the OP did feed or co sleep. She continued to feel anxious despite a lot of reassurance IIRC.

Soloman I did also mention on this thread the drinking / spilt breastmilk and I did indeed feed baby based on the advice here and some useful links provided. We didn't co sleep though..... baby doesn't always sleep with me.

I had drunk more than I personally felt comfortable with to feed (knew I would hence me expressing) but needs must and there were no ill effects to baby.

My issue here was with a) the amount this woman consumes and b) how normal it was to her to drink in such a way whilst nursing a very young baby.

I realise that my opening post is a bit ott, and I appreciate the drinking in moderation whilst bf'ing is fine I never said it wasn't but a whole bottle of wine is a lot???

A whole bottle of wine in one go is a lot. But over several hours and with food and water it may be that she's not actually 'drunk' at any point.

And mad I didn't realise you had to be medically qualified to be able to have an opinion. Apologies. That description actually came from a friend who is a trained midwife. I'll give her some feedback from you, if you like.

Higheredserf you didn't answer my question, do you think I shouldn't have drunk alcohol for the last 6 years?

Also, do you recognise that attitudes such as yours, publicly expressed (eg on this forum) can cause more harm than good, by adding to the pressure on mothers to wean earlier than they would otherwise?

Yes it is a lot, you're right. There are a lot of defensive posts here! I've also done my research and chose not to drink too much while breastfeeding due the research on gross motor development. I just expressed if I had a night out

There are a lot of defensive posts here!

Oh, come on - do you seriously think anyone who disagrees with the OP is knocking back a bottle a night themselves while breastfeeding?

This must be an area that people aren't well informed as I always thought it was unsafe to breast feed and drink alcohol. I've also heard "I haven't drunk in 18 months because of pregnancy and breast feeding" more times than I could count!

So I would have been surprised too.

Medical training doesn't come into, some of the stupidest comments come from HCP's. IT's just simple biology.

The problem here is women judging other women with no sound basis. And thinking its perfectly fine to do so! I don't understand the thought process..."I don't actually know anything about the reality of this subject, but I don't like what she's doing, and I'm going to say it loudly!"
What is your fucking problem? What is it about women having babies that makes them public property and fair game for every tool with an opinion to shout about it?
In a nutshell: you don't know what you are talking about, and even if you did, its not your business. On top of that, nobody cares about you and your little opinion.

You seem to care about her opinion...

PterodactylTeaParty

I hadn't considered (and frankly don't care) what those who disagree with the op drink! The fact is the op is right, it is a lot on a regular basis. Health wise and bf wise.

I think op we have all done things and when we give it some real thought is that the best for our child the answer is probably no

Do we really need to wait for scientific evidence to emerge to tell us that drinking while bf could and may cause harm results of studies change

We can search for as much evidence as we like but we know the effect alcohol can have on our bodies we choose to ignore that as most of us enjoy drinking what is being passed into our milk may be the smallest amount

And we have a very different attitude to wine than we do to cider or spirits if your op was about her drinking the same amount of units in spirits while rightly so you should have been pulled up on calling her disgusting I doubt there would have been so many defending drinking and bf

Drinking a bottle of wine in a night with or without food is not good for anyone easily done. A few times a week even less so bf or not is concerning