To think this woman is at best misguided and at worst disgusting?

[Totality22]

Will try to be brief.

I was introduced to a friend of a friend who is ebf her DS (about 10 weeks) and it came up in conversation that she drinks a bottle of wine in one evening once / twice a week. She was unashamed but made it clear she didn't neck it back (drinks it over the course 4-5 hours)

Once I picked my jaw up off the floor the conversation had moved on but I am still thinking about it days later.

I like a drink, can happily open a bottle and finish it the same evening [over the course of a good few hours, like the lady in question]. I had a glass of champers when 8 months pregnant so I am certainly not adverse to the notion of drinking / pregnancy / BF'ing.

AIBU to find this woman shocking though?

To not drip feed woman is a medical professional not trained in UK and currently a SAHP here, her husband is a Dr, she is not English [culturally I assume this may be relevant as maybe the info is different to here?], and she did this with her first baby who is now 5 and perfectly fine.

Pterodactyl Genuine question as I couldn't BF mins, why do mums need to dairy free if a baby has an allergy then?

*mine not mins!

Superworm it's your body that digests a bottle of wine not your baby's!

OP, I can understand why you're feeling defensive (and you are handling it really gracefully, at that) but I think the central point here is that the La Leche League post is founded on a fundamental misconception.

The writer of that post has read studies showing blood alcohol and milk alcohol levels are the same, and correlated that to the idea that the baby will get as drunk as you.

The reality is that the alcohol you drink is not flowing in your veins in that percentage, or you would be very dead. It is flowing in a vastly diluted form. So when you drink and feed your baby the milk at the absolute peak of your consumption, then unless you are a raging alcoholic who has built up such immunity that you can consume a litre of vodka in one sitting, and you are feeding a newborn, the baby won't be affected. You are talking 0.01 percentages, or a single unit of alcohol diluted by (the high) tens of litres of milk. Basically for the baby to be inebriated by that, you have to believe in homeopathy.

I was careful with cheese, coffee, and alcohol when pregnant. I'm not a big drinker, anyway. But a bottle of wine across an evening with food, while I wouldn't do it because hangovers with small kids are murderous, I can't see that it would harm a baby, no. The baby isn't experiencing the adult's level if inebriation. It isn't drinking the alcohol, neat. It's drinking the blood alcohol level - already incredibly dilute.

I would guess because tiny amounts of what is ingested go through to the milk, as they do with everything we consume. And in the case of a severe allergy, even a minute amount is enough to trigger it.

Out of interest what was the baby allergic to that the mum had to cut dairy out? Was it lactose or something that is present in cow's milk but not human? I don't know the difference between the two milks like that, I know human milk is sweeter for eg but not what the difference in core composition is.

Just had a google!

[http://www.lalecheleague.org/nb/nbjulaug98p100.html from here]]

Is interesting.

Early and occasional exposure to cow's milk proteins can sensitize a baby so that even tiny amounts of cow's milk may trigger a response: IgE levels rise and a severe reaction may occur. Thus, sensitive babies may react to cow's milk in their mothers' diet. Small amounts of cow's milk protein may appear in a mother's milk and provoke a response in her baby, even if the mother herself is not allergic to cow's milk. If there is a family history of milk allergies, a mother may prefer to avoid dairy products in her diet as well as not offering them directly to her baby. Severe reactions could otherwise occur.

Sorry I should clarify that I was advised to avoid citrus and caffeine as my baby was showing signs of colic

(I know booze doesn't get mentioned as it is assumed BF'ers aren't drinking alcohol)

My question was in relation to the stat's being bandied abut as to how little alcohol is passed onto baby.... I was wondering if it is so miniscule how comes it's not the same for caffeine?

Anyhoo, I accept that it's not as if the baby is being fed a bottle of wine a night.

In-fact according to this thread maybe I should crack open the bottle of Merlot I have on my counter

Is it the same for nuts, I wonder?

Yabu and ignoring all the posts pointing out the reality that the alcohol content of her milk would be so low as to be negligible. Less than in orange juice.

Totality - who told you citrus was linked to colic

You have received bad advice re colic.

There is nearly as much shit spouted about what you can do while BF'ing as what you can do while pregnant. Did you any of you bother to actually read the data linked to?
And will people stop quoting nhs guidelines as if they were some kind of fucking bible? Mind your own business, especially when you haven't got the first clue what you are actually talking about.

It is not recommended to drink alcohol in amounts the poster is talking about while breast feeding in the same way that certain medications are passed into breast milk. Baby's livers are tiny and immature and can't cope with what an adult liver can.

HV gave me the colic info.

I realise that HV are usually full of shit though.

Thanks madreloco.

I will take some time to read through all the links and appreciate all the comments even those that have been fucking rude

Is that the correct use of strikethrough ?

Ha ha... well that is what happens when you have a hissy fit !! Strikethrough failure there...

Your hv talked bollocks I am afraid. By what mechanism would a lemon affect bm? Mine burbled about broccoli and onions. That was bullshit too.

I don't think it is widely assumed breast feeding women don't drink. My HV told me it was okay to drink while breast feeding, although I don't think any health professional is going to advise anyone to drink a whole bottle of wine in one go.

Whirlpool, there is lactose in human breastmilk (as there is in all mammalian breastmilk). Lactose intolerance is not the same as cows milk protein allergy (CMPA) and cannot be controlled by removing dairy from the mother's diet. OTOH, CMPA can be controlled by removing dairy from the mother's diet. However, current research suggests that early exposure to allergens via breastmilk may actually prevent allergy (according to ds2's pediatrician, who is an allergy specialist), so pre-emptive cutting out of allergens prior to allergy being detected may do more harm than good.

Wiggly the point is though, when your breastfeeding you are sharing your body with a far less psychologically developed human being. So while my body may be able to digest 10 units of alcohol with just a mild hangover, it still upset my baby's stomach.

Tbh the research on what does and doesnt travel through breastmilk is scant and unreliable to say the least.

Caffeine is sometimes given to newborns as a prescribed medication in higher volumes than they'd ever get via milk. But as with all drugs some people, and babies, may be intolerant or even allergic.

An allergy isn't the same thing as blood alcohol levels, in that minute traces can cause some people life-threatening problems - some nut allergies are so severe that people can't fly on planes if anyone anywhere on the plane eats nuts, as the airconditioning circulates traces throughout.

And I would never ever drink much with tiny children to look after. The price in hangover terms is way too high!

Excellent thread - full of very helpful info. I've been working on the drinking and driving principle but I may relax a bit.

Wiggly the point is though, when your breastfeeding you are sharing your body with a far less psychologically developed human being. So while my body may be able to digest 10 units of alcohol with just a mild hangover, it still upset my baby's stomach.

But the baby is literally digesting 0.01% of alcohol from that amount. That isn't really likely to upset their stomach unless you have a baby with an intolerance or allergy to microscopic levels of alcohol (certainly possible, but probably rather rare).

I think drinking heavily around babies is a bad idea because you are unlikely to be as attuned to them as they ideally need if you are blotto. But I doubt breastfeeding during or after is going to cause them physiological harm. The alcohol is too dilute unless you are a dangerously addicted alcoholic yourself. In utero the blood alcohol levels pass almost straight through the placenta, and it's a very bad idea to drink much or very frequently, albeit not as histrionic as the NHS guidance has become (because some women were reading "moderate" and thinking that meant half a bottle a night instead of a whole one). But breastmilk, and the baby's blood alcohol level after drinking breastmilk, isn't reflective of your own blood alcohol level, because their blood alcohol level is after drinking the alcohol percentage of your blood alcohol level - not the alcohol percentage a bottle of wine direct.

Ok, so are the posters who aren't uncomfortable about a mother drinking a whole bottle of wine in one evening while breastfeeding, unconvinced that the mother's diet has any effect whatsoever on their baby?