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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be uncomfortable that my heterosexual friend is volunteering for lgbt kids charity?

453 replies

travellingbird · 25/04/2015 14:08

My friend has to be the most conscientious person. She is exceptionally engaged with social issues and currently works in a lefty cause (climate change). She told me she was about to start with a work-approved charity for LGBT young people in schools. The aim is to go into schools and address homophobia and gender stereotypes etc. She is hetero and cis. I'm gay, and she has been one of my closest friends even before I came out at 15. She has witnessed and supported me through my battles with homophobic parents. Our mutual best friend is also gay and identifies as agender.
She is well aware of her privilege (in a good way) and has aired her concerns about not being quite right for it, yet is proceeding.

So, am I unreasonable to be uncomfortable with her taking this role? Should I just be happy she is er, "helping us" and being a wonderful ally?

OP posts:
Preminstreltension · 25/04/2015 22:39

Off topic but I think the "privilege" approach to racism, sexism, lgbtism is extremely unhelpful. It feels delightful to tell someone that they have privilege and better still to tell them that they are unaware of it. But it does absolutely nothing to help those people understand the issue and get behind the cause alongside you.

CIS privilege as a concept gets my back up. As does the word cis tbh. The whole privilege approach feels passive aggressive and zero sum. I think there are much better ways to bring about equality.

And yabu OP. You sound like a teenager who is annoyed with her friend for buying the latest album of the latest band before you had a chance to..

Buxhoeveden · 25/04/2015 22:42

CIS privilege as a concept gets my back up. As does the word cis tbh. The whole privilege approach feels passive aggressive and zero sum. I think there are much better ways to bring about equality.

I'm not sure it's designed to bring about equality. The 'cis' label particularly -especially in general use- seems retaliatory and just creates emnity.

Ubik1 · 25/04/2015 22:46

I think the 'cis' label is a way of instantly dismissing a view. I've seen it used in a derogatory way to describe someone.

lucycant · 25/04/2015 22:48

Negative comments at schools against gay and lesbian people are commonplace. If a volunteer can go in and begin to change that, then that is valuable.
This isn't about being a role model. It is about trying to change young people's attitudes.

ArcheryAnnie · 25/04/2015 23:34

The cis label has been used here to describe people none of us can possible know whether they are cis or not. Only the op knows if her friend has specifically said she's cis - but if she hasn't, then the op should not describe her as such.

If you are not trans you are also not necessarily cis. Don't slap a cis label on someone unless they have specifically asked that you do so.

Buxhoeveden · 25/04/2015 23:38

In the sense that EVERYONE has the right to choose their own self-description Annie?

Randomsquiggle · 25/04/2015 23:53

Just tried to post a long post and lost it! Just tried to say, basically, that I'm gay and have some truly amazing straight ally friends who I think would do a fabulous job of speaking to young people and affirming them in their LGBT identity. Sometimes being on 'the outside' but being sensitive and aware can be a massive strength.

ArcheryAnnie · 25/04/2015 23:56

In the sense that cis is a nonsense term and that if you want to slap it on yourself that's your business, but please don't be so presumptuous as to slap it on anyone else without their permission, Buxhoe.

caroldecker · 26/04/2015 00:01

But if only the person with the experience can talk about it, the volunteer has to be L, G, B and T?
How can a lesbian volunteer support a gay man if 'living the experience' is required?

caroldecker · 26/04/2015 00:02

Or are you saying that the experience is identical for all LGBT and totally different for all cis hetrosexuals?

Purplefrogeatsalily · 26/04/2015 00:03

Is it acceptable to say the same about a gay person working for a relationships service for all (mostly heterosexual relationships)... Of course, not, and that would would homophobic Hmm

With your judging nature, I don't know how well suited you would be, in any case, yourself, for such a role.

Randomsquiggle · 26/04/2015 00:09

Carol, I don't think that 'having the experience' is as important as empathy and emotional awareness. Each person is unique, so each person's experience is unique. My experience as a lesbian has been coloured by lots of different factors, some of which don't affect many other lesbians. There is no such thing as 'the lesbian experience', any more than there is 'the gay lifestyle.' All we have are ourselves, our own stories and our empathy and time to give to each other, and it's not true that people with similar experiences are the best ones to help. Two of my best mates are straight men who are just lovely and very emotionally in tune with me. I'd trust them to speak on my behalf any day of the week, but that's because of their personal qualities, not their sexual or gender identities. It's who we ate, not what we are, that matters. If that makes sense. Smile

Randomsquiggle · 26/04/2015 00:11

Who we are, I mean! I'm not recommending cannibalism :)

ImpatientGriselda2 · 26/04/2015 00:24

Sorry, only read about half the thread.

The sort of discussion / ideas / terminology the OP is using (which it's easy to consider well-known rather than niche if one spends a lot of time around it) is not a usual way of talking on Mumsnet, so it may be a bit naive to expect a large number of reasonable and useful responses when people don't even know the vocab, let alone find this a usual or predictable sort of question.

I think RachelWatts and RitaCrudgington made excellent responses.

Girls at my school were homophobic - even spending a lot of time with one best friend often led to rumours that the people were lesbian, and there was a general climate that it was definitely 'not normal' and something to be shunned / be afraid of. A number of classmates later turned out to be lesbian or bi (found out when everyone joined Facebook).

Things sound quite different these days, the impression I get re older kids is that most teens, other than those from some very religious backgrounds, are pretty relaxed about LGBTetc peers these days. But if a kid feels unable to come out, or is constantly paranoid that others will realise they're LGBT, then the perspective of a straight person who's okay with it might help. It definitely would have when I was at school, to teach the kids who were 100% sure they were straight that there was nothing to be afraid of, that gay people aren't going to jump them or something.

However, I'd guess a lot of the kids who would still be scared about being LGBT won't be from lefty white middle class families and so the perspective of another liberal white adult being okay with gayness isn't as useful, because that's everywhere in the media now.

In the end though, I think it's about personal boundaries, and there are occasions when people we know get jobs we might not think they're the best person for - but just need to let go as there's nothing we can do, it doesn't directly affect us and it might well be alright for those it does.

caroldecker · 26/04/2015 01:20

Random that is exactly my point. The OP's issue was that a cis hetrosexual cannot run a LGBT discussion as she has not 'experienced the issues'. My point was that everyone has unique issues and that an L or G or B or T has different questions/problems.
Under the OP's definition no-one should do this job as they have not lived all the issues.

oranginanana · 26/04/2015 05:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

richthegreatcornholio · 26/04/2015 07:47

I couldn't even tolerate such a sanctimonious lefty do-gooder in my life let alone actually be friends with one. She sounds like the sort of person you have to restrain yourself from smacking in the mouth to stop the endless flow of drivel.

ArcheryAnnie · 26/04/2015 07:56

Why is "doing good" and caring about your friends "drivel", richthegreat?

SoupDragon · 26/04/2015 08:17

She sounds like the sort of person you have to restrain yourself from smacking in the mouth to stop the endless flow of drivel.

Rather like certain MNers.

TiggyD · 26/04/2015 08:21

Right on Rich!

Bloody "do-gooders" trying to do good everywhere and make the world a better place! Angry

Iggi999 · 26/04/2015 08:23

As a teacher then I can only talk to classes about sexism, and can't help to promote equality for disabled people, LGBT people, Muslim people, black people, etc etc - as I am not one of those people?
This isn't just silly it is harmful.

ragged · 26/04/2015 08:46

Straight kids without desire-to-change-gender need role models too.
Role models in how to support their LBGT-gender-diverse-whatever-jargon friends and integrate awareness of LBGT etc. into their lives. Coz the charity volunteer will leave & the kids will sort themselves after that.

"Am I gay just because my friend is gay?"
"If I went to a gay pride parade would that make me gay too?"
"If my dad wears dresses does that mean I'll be gay, too?"

Just some starter questions they need a confident answer to.

NurseRoscoe · 26/04/2015 08:57

Is this the same as saying I shouldn't care for diabetic patients, people with dementia, Parkinsons etc because I haven't got these conditions so can't fully understand how it feels to have them? I still know how to provide care for them, I still care ABOUT them, I care about every patient I meet, you learn through getting to know people and hearing about their lives and their problems. If she hasn't been through it herself yet still cares, that shows what sort of person she is. I would take it as a compliment that you have inspired her to do this tbh

QuintShhhhhh · 26/04/2015 09:22

My male gay friend is a contraception nurse for women. By Ops standards my friend should not do this job, on the account of having a penis.

But, he has lots of education and experience after over 20 years as a nurse, has specialized in HIV care and sexual health. But hey, he has no personal experience of having sex as a woman, and needing contraception.

Op, I really think you need to look at your prejudices!

differentnameforthis · 26/04/2015 09:31

She hasn't experienced that disprivilege and never will.

I work in a food bank, but I haven't experienced that kind of need...are you saying that I am not the best person for that job?

She may be trying to learn about it, which is why she has taken this roll.

She's speaking about being lgbt. The point is, is that although she cannot experience it for herself, she can collect data & LEARN & empathise with the struggles they face.

There are a lot of things that we will never directly experience. That doesn't mean we can't talk/educate. Counsellors being one case in point. They haven't lived through most of what they counsel about, but they can help, advise & support.

To me it is about that young person's safety and space. So what...you think she is compromising someone's space & safety in discussing these issues?

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