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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be uncomfortable that my heterosexual friend is volunteering for lgbt kids charity?

453 replies

travellingbird · 25/04/2015 14:08

My friend has to be the most conscientious person. She is exceptionally engaged with social issues and currently works in a lefty cause (climate change). She told me she was about to start with a work-approved charity for LGBT young people in schools. The aim is to go into schools and address homophobia and gender stereotypes etc. She is hetero and cis. I'm gay, and she has been one of my closest friends even before I came out at 15. She has witnessed and supported me through my battles with homophobic parents. Our mutual best friend is also gay and identifies as agender.
She is well aware of her privilege (in a good way) and has aired her concerns about not being quite right for it, yet is proceeding.

So, am I unreasonable to be uncomfortable with her taking this role? Should I just be happy she is er, "helping us" and being a wonderful ally?

OP posts:
almondcakes · 26/04/2015 22:19

Although of course many people acknowledge their biological sex and do just themselves as a person and don't think their sex is that important at all.

Theycallmemellowjello · 26/04/2015 22:31

well, personally I don't really believe that biology accounts for most of the differences between the genders that we see in society. Fair enough if you think that masculinity and femininity are governed by biology rather than society, but I don't think that it's legitimate to shut down debate by saying that it is offensive to suggest that gender is a social construct. You think that women feel like women because of biology, I say it's because of society. Neither of us are dictating how anyone should identify, and neither view is offensive to express.

JanineStHubbins · 26/04/2015 22:36

I don't think almond is arguing what you've written above at all!

almondcakes · 26/04/2015 22:43

I never even remotely said any of that.

Most people recognise their biological sex just like they recognise their height and it is part of who they are.

I feel like I am a tall woman because I am a tall woman. I am recognising my biology.

Masculinity and femininty are socially constructed. If you think feeling feminine makes someone a woman or that all women feel feminine that is just old fashioned sexism.

Theycallmemellowjello · 26/04/2015 22:48

Sorry, but that is the exact opposite of what I am saying. I am saying that you may be biologically a man or a woman. That is your sex. And you may feel masculine or feminine. That is your gender identity. You were suggesting that most people do not have a gender identity separate from their sex. I think that they do.

almondcakes · 26/04/2015 22:51

That is not what gender identity means.

A trans woman feels she is a woman. She is stating that woman is her gender identity. She is transgender. She is not claiming that she feels feminine. Some trans women feel feminine and some do not, just like everyone else.

almondcakes · 26/04/2015 22:57

And this whole argument that I have gone through with you is because you are dictating how people should identify. You are claiming that the vast majority of people are cisgender and should accept being referred to as such.

Original poster
travellingbird · 26/04/2015 23:04

Just to note, my friend describes herself as "cis", and does so knowing the debate. I also would deliberately use this term, but I accept that others definitely would not. I apologise to anyone I offended, particularly through using this term in a way that was not accessible.

OP posts:
almondcakes · 26/04/2015 23:08

And I am quite happy to call people cis if they have chosen that as a term that makes them happy.

Travelling bird, I think that swan made some really good points on here.

I agree with her that LGBT youth need role models.

I think this is particularly important because so many teachers can't be out at school.

And I think that is important in the issue you raised in your OP.

UsedtobeFeckless · 26/04/2015 23:11

In the nicest possible way OP it's got nothing to do with you ... If the charity are happy to have her help then she's fine and if not they can tell her politely to get lost - how you feel about it is irrelevant.

You do sound like a rather sniffy sort of friend, too ... You say her help was useful to you so presumably she might have something to offer other people as well.

almondcakes · 26/04/2015 23:20

Surely it is something to do with the OP in terms of the friendship, not what actually happens in the volunteering position?

Understanding the OP's life experiences and opinions on this part of who the OP is has been a major part of the friendship. If the OP feels uncomfortable with decisions the friend is making, particularly as that decision may have been influenced by being the OP's close friend, that is going to have an impact on the friendship.

Say if I had shared a lot of feelings about a particular part of my life with a friend, and they then took a position talking to young people about that very topic (which they hadn't been through personally), I would have some discomfort with that.

UsedtobeFeckless · 26/04/2015 23:38

Mmm ... So the OP basically thinks the friend is milking her experiences to get a load of Right-On Brownie points? If that's really what's going on it's probably time to put a bit of distance between them ... Do you feel she's only being a friend for a bit of LBGT credibility, OP?

almondcakes · 26/04/2015 23:48

Well the friend may be well intentioned, and the OP might not mind that much, but I would be uncomfortable if I thought my life experiences were being used as a component in somebody else's advice giving role.

Original poster
travellingbird · 26/04/2015 23:49

Almond - that's very helpful.

I suspect a couple of readers might understand this feeling -- so say, for example, you had been abused as a child and your friend knew this, and then they decided (unrelated to this) to work with abused children, you might feel like it brings up old discomfort/hurt. It is important I recognise this in the situation I described.

But like I said, as a gay teenager, I would have wanted an lgbt role model in my school not a straight one who has been trained, however well, to say the right things. Representation and validation is vital. I feel uncomfortable with heterosexual people informing me that my identity is legitimate.

OP posts:
purplepenguin86 · 27/04/2015 03:47

You said the aim of the role is to address homophobia and gender stereotypes. I don't see why a straight, cis woman is unsuitable for this. The role is not to discuss experiences of being an LGBT teenager, and you don't even need to be LGBT to have first hand experience of gender stereotyping. You don't have to have been a victim of homophobia to be able to talk about what it is and why it is wrong. If the role was different and involved discussing personal experiences of being gay for example then I'd agree with you, but if the position is about discussing and challenging stigma and prejudice like you said then I don't see the problem. I have a history of mental health problems, but I wouldn't have a problem with someone without that history volunteering in a position that involved discussing what mental health problems were and tackling the stigma. I'd have a problem with someone who hadn't experienced mental health problems doing a position in which they were expected to discuss what it was like living with their mental health problems.

PeruvianFoodLover · 27/04/2015 07:11

But like I said, as a gay teenager, I would have wanted an lgbt role model in my school not a straight one who has been trained, however well, to say the right things. Representation and validation is vital. I feel uncomfortable with heterosexual people informing me that my identity is legitimate.

So why not raise that with the charity? That you don't think the provision and support they offer is appropriate for LGBT teens?

Your friend has been deemed the " best person for the job" that the charity has available - and yet you seem to be blaming her for the fact that the job itself is, in your opinion, ill advised.

I admit to being ignorant about LGBT support charities - do others offer the type of "role modelling" you say is needed in schools, or do all the charities operate on the same model as the one your friend is volunteering for? Why is that?

Brandysnapper · 27/04/2015 07:24

A team I have seen working in schools considered of one gay man and one straight woman. This worked really well. However I suppose that didn't cover other experiences - a straight man who had no negativity about gay people, a gay woman, etc etc.
What is benign provided here sounds like anti-homophobia/equality training for teenagers, not targeted support for gay teenagers. The pair of trainers I mention talked about and left contact numbers for local groups where lgbt teenagers could get that peer support from others in the same situation.

Brandysnapper · 27/04/2015 07:25

Sorry for typos, on bus.

morage · 27/04/2015 07:58

As an older lesbian, I only ever saw gay men on the TV. The only representations of lesbians was a few tragic old films. Things have changed. There is lots of representation now in the media. And a gay man coming into my school would have not provided me with a role model at all.

Original poster
travellingbird · 27/04/2015 08:54

Earlier in the thread I explained the role is also to talk about the experience of being lgbt. Other lgbt charities politely decline straight people for this reason.

OP posts:
UsedtobeFeckless · 27/04/2015 09:49

Have you spoken to her about your feelings travellingbird? You said she was aware she wasn't quite right for it - then why did she think it was the right thing to do to go ahead?

Brandysnapper · 27/04/2015 10:01

She probably thought she was right to go ahead as the organisation gave her the job - why should she (or we) second guess them?
I don't imagine she lied about being straight. Presumably if equally suitable gay people had applied, the role would have gone to them, but it didn't.
She may talk about the experiences of others without claiming them for herself. She might read their accounts or show videos.

OrlandoWoolf · 27/04/2015 10:04

I suspect the organisation know what they are doing.

Other lgbt charities politely decline straight people for this reason

I suppose it depends on the role. Do you think the LGBT charity don't know what they are doing? Are they experienced in this area of school education?

TheMagnificientFour · 27/04/2015 10:24

If other organisations are chosing to employ only LGBT, don't you think your anger/unease should be directed towards that organisation rather than your friend?

After all, they are the one to employ her, to chose who is a good candidate etc... If your friend hadn't apply for the job, someone else (probably NOT a LGBT either) would have got that job anyway.

UsedtobeFeckless · 27/04/2015 10:26

I think there's two seperate things going on here -

the charity have taken the OP's friend on so they are obviously fine with her and feel that any and all positive voices are a good thing.

The OP has a sense that the friend is capitalising on her position as the OP's confidante ( Not sure how you spell it! Blush ) and isn't happy about it.

So to be honest I think you're both right! ( Deeply unhelpful emoticon ) She sounds like a useful speaker for the charity but I don't blame you for feeling a bit Hmm about her using your experiences to do it ...