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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To have excluded this friend from our travel plans?

142 replies

HourOrTwo · 21/04/2015 16:23

I'm going on a tiger-spotting safari holiday for 3 weeks with a close friend. Our other close friend just found out and is very upset we didn't invite her. For many years the 3 of us talked about going on a tiger safari together, but it was more a pipe-dream.

Reason we didn't invite her is she's been very unreliable the last couple of years. She often says she'll visit for weekend, arranges dates etc then at last minute says she can't afford it and backs out. She's always been hard up and for years I helped her out with money, e.g. paying for her train tickets, giving her money towards group trips, paying her share of meals out etc. I didn't mind back then as she was a student and i was working, but for the last 2 years she's had a full-time job. Nearly every time she's been due to visit, she phoned me the day before and said she couldn't afford the train fare, or she wanted to come but wouldn't have any money for taxi or going out. The first time I said come anyway, I sent her money for train, paid for everything etc. Second time I didn't offer to pay, she didn't ask, she said she couldn't come.

We've been friends since we were 8 years old, she's more like a sister than a friend, but I got fed-up of feeling used. A couple of times she'd claimed she had no money, she'd then go clothes shopping in front of me, or tell me about something she'd recently bought! Since I stopped offering to pay for her, she has stopped visiting altogether. I can't go to her as she lives in a shared house and I'd have to get a B+B, which is too much hassle and expense. I miss her and we talk on the phone often, and if she paid for herself at least sometimes I wouldn't mind helping her with travel costs at other times.

Anyway, she is furious and very hurt we are going on this holiday without her. I feel awful but its booked now. I pointed out she always says she can't afford train fares or meals out, so how would she have afforded this, but she says she would have saved up. AIBU?

OP posts:

APlaceOnTheCouch · 21/04/2015 18:53

You have two choices - to end the friendship, or have That Talk.
Exactly As MN is fond of saying, 'no' is a complete sentence. No-one can make you pay for them.

And the OP was happy for the friend to always be the one travelling to see her because the op couldn't be bothered with the 'hassle'. So the op may have paid occasionally but her friend gave up more of her time to keep the friendship alive.

WizardofSnoz · 21/04/2015 19:06

They just didn't want her there complaining about her lack of money in hope they would feel guilty and pay for her treats'

Same schoolyard attitude. So if you have a friend who is less well off than you and they truthfully tell you that they can't afford to do it then they are guilt tripping you? Especially when that friend can't be arsed to get on a train and see you? It's interesting because the OP didn't say 'I will get the train to you', she said 'I will pay your train fare'. It was for her convenience. It seems like because she is the wealthier party in this relationship she expects the friend to dance attendance on her at her beck and call. Do you think perhaps she said she couldn't afford the train fare to perhaps prompt her friend into making the effort to get the train herself?

Besides, if this woman can't afford a train fare she wouldn't be able to afford a tiger spotting holiday. The kindest way of dealing with this would have been to call her, be up front, tell her that they were booking the holiday and they knew she probably couldn't afford it but they didn't want her to think she was not included but firmly turn down any attempts (if there were any, she doesn't seem to ask outright) to finance the trip.

Actually, to be honest I'm wondering if the OP's friend has actually been trying to end the friendship for some time. She is always trying to get out of seeing her and the OP puts the guilt trip on by offering to pay and twisting her arm to come out.

I suspect this is probably a destructive friendship both ways and has probably run its course.

honeyroar · 21/04/2015 19:11

I think that I would have mentioned it to her, but said that she needed to book/pay independently. There aren't many excursions/extras on a holiday like that, surely? Wouldn't meals and transfers be included, and the rest of the time be spent on Safari?

TheOneWiththeNicestSmile · 21/04/2015 20:07

I've never booked a massive package holiday like this but I can imagine that once you commit to it, even if the deposit is relatively small(???), if you then try to withdraw due to lack of funds they'll clobber you with cancellation charges.

So even if friend had been included from the outset & managed to scrape together the minimum deposit, when it came to paying a bigger chunk later she wouldn't have been able to & the other 2 would have had to stump up either for her share or for the cancellation charge. & if they paid her share at that point, then what...???

Honestly in these circs I would definitely have tried to swerve the confrontation & just hoped she wouldn't find out - not out of spite or bitchiness, just because it would avoid a lot of grief later.

Binkybix · 21/04/2015 20:12

I think you were pretty mean and immature. It seems as though she was akways incurring the cost and time to visit you so maybe you were also being a bit unfair to her in the past by never making the effort.

Anyway - what are you going to do now?

Nevercallmehun · 21/04/2015 20:25

What does mutual friend think. If she feels the same as you then that speaks volumes and yanbu.

ChasedByBees · 21/04/2015 20:30

It sounds like you never raised your frustrations about money with her, but just excluded her from this. I can see why you did, but if she doesn't know your reasons it will feel she is being cut out. So on that basis, YABU.

DocHollywood · 21/04/2015 20:40

Bloody hell. I'd be so mad I'd never talk to you again. She's never going to go on her dream holiday now is she? Seeing as the people she was going to go with are going without her! I can't believe you didn't even let her know it was on the cards. I'm sure she's not hard up, she doesn't want to have to pay every time to come and see you. You never go to her because of the cost. Sounds like the friendship's run it's course.

DinosaursRoar · 21/04/2015 21:04

Well, the flip side of that Doc, is would the other 2 never be able to go on their dream holiday either, if they were forever waiting for their 3rd friend be able to afford it. Saying she "could have saved up" suggests this isn't something she really thought would be happening in the near future - she wsan't saving already, it wasn't something she expected to be finding the money for this year/next year.

OP - if it's something that she could still book, then apologise for just assuming she couldn't afford it, give her the details and say you'd be happy for her to join you, but don't get involved with adding her to your booking or linking her holiday to yours, because then if she only raises the money for the deposit and not the full holiday, you won't get hit with the balance.

That said, you don't go to stay with her as she's not able to put you up, she doesn't come to stay with you because she can't afford the travel, are you that close anymore? How long is it since you saw each other? It must be hard for her to realise that she's moved away from you both and her behaviour has effected your relationship.

MimiSunshine · 21/04/2015 21:06

I agree with some posters, YABU.

I was with you on the always paying and the flakiness until you said you never visit her because it's too much hassle and expense.
If she always has to pay to visit you plus money for dinners / activities etc it adds up and by the way staying in your presumably none shared house will be a bit of a hassle for her too on weekends she's had a busy week.

You deliberately excluded her for silly, easy to over come reasons and have been very unfair as it's been a pipe dream for all of you.
Either walk away from the friendship now, or apologise hugely for leaving her out and ask her to join you.

DinosaursRoar · 21/04/2015 21:09

That said, I agree that it seems unfair that you wouldn't visit her as she was in a shared house, could you not kip on the sofa/floor or has she said she couldn't have you stay? Are there no cheap B&Bs near by?

HeyDuggee · 21/04/2015 21:19

I'm on your side, OP.

You are budgeting for a shared double accomodation and need to rely on each other or you lose your deposit.

If you included her, you would need to arrange for a triple accomodation or an additional single and would be relying on someone who continuously let you down for years.

Part of the trip is the anticipation and planning - she would have ruined it by constantly promising she was saving for the trip, but in the next breath talking about a new purchase...
Til the deposit deadline which she's inevitably fall short on, then when it came time to pay the full amount... You'd be screwed. She of course would be short again and would be looking for a loan from you two. There would be a no win, only months of stress instead of happy anticipation.

You all know she'd not go in the end, but she just wanted to be part of the planning. She's find it fun, you'd be on edge.

HazleNutt · 21/04/2015 21:25

well you're both unreasonable. If you still consider her a close friend, then it was very mean to plan this trip behind her back.

However, I also had a "friend" like that, who could never afford to go out, eat, pay for anything when I was there as well. She could afford to buy herself plenty of other stuff though. She was no friend really, just a user. So if you believe she is in fact not really skint but taking advantage of you, you should have a talk - or end the friendship.

nickersinaknot · 21/04/2015 21:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AyMamita · 21/04/2015 21:40

YANBU. Now that she has had a full-time job for two years, has she paid you back all the money she's borrowed over the years? Doesn't sound like it!

at "no-star feral shithole", PanGalactic

Whocansay · 21/04/2015 21:40

She can still save if she wants to, but there's no reason you should have to change your plans. You're all adults.

I don't think you handled it brilliantly, but this one's a user. I'd drop her, tbh.

Carriemac · 21/04/2015 21:47

YANBU at all

Binkybix · 21/04/2015 21:51

On these holidays I think you tend to pay per person so the arguments that she'd let you down and you'd have to pay for her down neccessarily hold any water.

Quitelikely · 21/04/2015 21:57

Your actions were very underhand.

You don't get to decide whether your friend can afford something or not. She decides that.

As for contributing to her restaurant bills in years gone by I think the fact that it had influenced your decision shows a lack of class from yourself.

You said she was a good friend, you like her company............some things are more important than money.

Your behaviour was shameless.

DawnOfTheDoggers · 21/04/2015 22:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

my2centsis · 21/04/2015 22:35

Could you of not still asked her before you booked? So she didn't feel so discluded? I wouldn't talk to you again tbh. Shitty friends

APlaceOnTheCouch · 21/04/2015 23:09

your decision shows a lack of class
I think this is my favourite insult from all my years on MN

Carriemac · 21/04/2015 23:34

Is discluded a word!

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 22/04/2015 03:01

I would
Apologise to her
....it was underhand, but I understand, it was for very good reasons. I feel your pain, I once had a very good pal who could 'never' afford this meal/this round /contribute to fuel. So the rest of the group always subsidised her.. This went on for months and months ... Until we noticed her new designer clothes, and her announcement of her imminent 5 week trip to south america....Oh yes, and the fairly new sportscar...

I would do what was suggested upthread, give her all the dates and details of accommodation and ask her to join you...

DinosaursRoar · 22/04/2015 07:34

The "save up" plan is clearly a no starter as well, she has regularly planned to visit the op, planned to have the money for a train fair, but then found a day or two before she's not got enough money. This isn't someone who can "save up" for stuff.if the op had done a group booking, even if the friend had produced the money for the deposit, there would' be the stress of would she produce the balance.

Then there's the other issue - if the friend can easily save up the £2-3k for a holiday, why can't she save the £50-60 for a train fair? If the friend has shown that they can save for something they think is "worth it", does that mean visits to the op and her other friend are "not worth it".

Some people who are a bit rubbish with money (which the op's friend clearly is, it's not that she lack money now, just is spending it on other stuff), often don't realise how their failure to prioritise other people/some things comes across as not valuing them. Often with "bad with money" people it's not a conscious decision, they don't think "hmm, I can buy this dress or get the train to visit my friend in 2 weekends time, I'll buy this dress and then cancel friend." What they do is "wow, that dress will look amazing on me, do I have the money? Yes!" Then 2 weeks later notice they don't have the money for the train fair.

I had a friend like this, if we did a night out the week after pay day, she'd come along, if we planned a night out at the end of the month, even if we'd planned it at the start of the month, she'd cancel because no matter how good her intentions, she just couldn't save the money. It was always a surprise to her that she couldn't go. It was insulting for a while that she'd have lots of new clothes and fb full of photos of nights out with other friends, but those were all paid for at the start of the month. (Once another friend found out when her pay day was and only arranged group stuff on the first week, we all saw more of her!)

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