To have excluded this friend from our travel plans?

[HourOrTwo]

I'm going on a tiger-spotting safari holiday for 3 weeks with a close friend. Our other close friend just found out and is very upset we didn't invite her. For many years the 3 of us talked about going on a tiger safari together, but it was more a pipe-dream.

Reason we didn't invite her is she's been very unreliable the last couple of years. She often says she'll visit for weekend, arranges dates etc then at last minute says she can't afford it and backs out. She's always been hard up and for years I helped her out with money, e.g. paying for her train tickets, giving her money towards group trips, paying her share of meals out etc. I didn't mind back then as she was a student and i was working, but for the last 2 years she's had a full-time job. Nearly every time she's been due to visit, she phoned me the day before and said she couldn't afford the train fare, or she wanted to come but wouldn't have any money for taxi or going out. The first time I said come anyway, I sent her money for train, paid for everything etc. Second time I didn't offer to pay, she didn't ask, she said she couldn't come.

We've been friends since we were 8 years old, she's more like a sister than a friend, but I got fed-up of feeling used. A couple of times she'd claimed she had no money, she'd then go clothes shopping in front of me, or tell me about something she'd recently bought! Since I stopped offering to pay for her, she has stopped visiting altogether. I can't go to her as she lives in a shared house and I'd have to get a B+B, which is too much hassle and expense. I miss her and we talk on the phone often, and if she paid for herself at least sometimes I wouldn't mind helping her with travel costs at other times.

Anyway, she is furious and very hurt we are going on this holiday without her. I feel awful but its booked now. I pointed out she always says she can't afford train fares or meals out, so how would she have afforded this, but she says she would have saved up. AIBU?

I think it is fine to assume somebody can't come, and to say 'if you want to come, great, you need to book and pay by May 14th!' (or whenever.) I have a flaky friend too and while I wouldn't, for instance, book concert tickets for her, I would message her with the link and 'if you fancy it'.

To exclude someone altogether does seem unpleasant to me.

Of course, if their behaviour has exasperated you to the point you no longer wish to continue the friendship then that is different but that doesn't sound the case here.

Exactly whonicked ok she might have paid for her flights and hotel, but you and your other friend might end up subbing her, with meals, excursions etc. I personally don't blame you for excluding her, she sounds like she has been very flaky and using you. It sounds as though you were beginning to distance yourself,so no don't feel guilty.

Since I stopped offering to pay for her, she has stopped visiting altogether

This just sums up the whole relationship to me. OP has been used & when she stopped allowing the friend to use her the friend withdrew. Not nice

Send her booking details and that she will need x amount of spending.

She won't go.

I suppose the two who booked were wary about losing money if the other friend failed to pay money on time, not wanting to continually chase for the money and then be put in the position of being asked to 'lend' the money, etc., etc.

I might have spoken to the friend and said "we're planning this, if you want to come we need a definite commitment and all the money up front by 'x' date otherwise we'll go ahead and just book for the two of us".

I do understand why OP has done this but also wonder why, if they are as close as sisters, OP hasn't spoken to her about the money issues before now - you are supposed to be able to be honest with true friends.

Problem is, and I speak from experience, when you invite someone on a holiday who is on a much tighter budget then yourself you will find that your itinerary/travel plans/choice of accommodation constantly compromised with the friend complaining 'I cant afford that'. So you either end up subsidising that person to allow them to do all the things you originally planned (various tourist attractions, eating out at nice restaurant, taxi from to/from airport etc etc) or you cut your cloth to suit their preferred budget which usually means taking the indirect flight with a 20 hour stopover in Buttfuckstan to save 70, dossing in some no star feral shithole and making your own pack lunches before you go (free) sightseeing.

Well, she certainly won't now - I would struggle to afford a tiger safari with a minutes notice! :) I imagine many of us would.

I don't disagree that the friend sounds like a bit of a user.
However this is their dream trip, the one they talked about since college.

The right thing to do would have been to tell her about it, but make it very clear that you could not sub her in any way.

@ Pangalactic, absolutely spot on.

Yabu kind of, just based in the fact that all 3 of you discussed it. I would have told her and given her a date to give me the money by and if she didn't book it anyway.

Or actually have discussed the situation with her and tell her how you feel. She has ended upset anyway.

I wouldn't want to go with her, but I can see why she is upset.

It is spot on but honestly, you wouldn't be extremely hurt if someone said 'you can't come away with us as you just don't have enough money?'

If it was a close friend of mine and we had spoken about it for years I would be absolutely beside myself to be honest.

Even if she'd been asked, booked and paid for herself I imagine OP would spend the entire trip on edge, waiting for her "friend" to offer to pay for a drink, meal etc., starting at the airport. I imagine she would "forget" her travel money.

This is why I don't think YANBU and don't agree with the advice to leave it up to her to book. In the unlikely event she does cough up the money and book her ticket, she's going to try her best to get you to pay for her while you're out there.

Going against the grain here I think yabu.

Whilst I totally understand you not wanting to finance her any longer, I dintbthink it's fair you saying that you won't go to her as it's too expensive and too much trouble. Certainly not fair expecting her to always have the expense of coming to you.

And would it really have hurt you to include her in the planning." And given her the option? If she can't afford it then fine, youre still going ahead.

IMHO you and your friend are being a bit mean girl leaving her out.

I don't think op is being unreasonable at all. Things have changed since college, friend has proved very unreliable and a bit of a user. Since op has stopped paying for friend, she has stopped visiting her. That would really out me right off. Even if she paied for her flights and hotel, agreed that op and her friend would nit sub her, I bet when she arrives she has no money, so tgat limits everybody. It would ruin the holiday.

Yabv mean not to have even mentioned it. Furthermore I'm not entirely sure it's unreasonable to pay for the odd train ticket for her if you never visit her and always expect her to do the legwork.

OP and her other friend had plenty of time to work out a way to tell her they were planning the trip and she was welcome to come provided she paid her own way and that they were planning to do x, y & z so she'd need £££ spending money which they'd be unable to sub at all ,as trip is costly.

It's not that tricky to say.

Just because someone else behaves badly, doesn't mean you should as well.

I can understand that your patience with her has grown thin now after her attitude over the years.

Don't feel guilty about not "inviting" her. You don't owe her a life (or a living).

As said by a pp, give her the details/dates and let her book her own. Betting she won't be there?

On the other hand, I wouldn't want a holiday spoiled by constant "no money" moans....
She sounds like a drama queen.

I think you were mean. You could have got together in a really organised way and done a whole plan of the cost and what you wanted to do and been really clear about when payment was needed and no backing out etc. She might have got her act together for a dream trip you'd talked about for years - but you never gave her the chance. I'd be really really upset too.

I'd have been hurt off if I was your mate.

Do you think she would have leaned on you for financial assistance if you'd told her?

Too late now, enjoy your trip.

I think YABU because it was a dream trip that the three of you had discussed.

I understand that you are bored of subbing her but it sounds from your OP as though she was always the one making the effort to visit you and you never returned the visits because it was too expensive and inconvenient for you Maybe she was bored of always being the one to travel to you, and thought it was only fair you met some of the costs because you both enjoyed meeting up but you wouldn't make the effort to visit her because it was too much hassle and expense .

Maybe this friendship has run its course because I genuinely can't imagine the circumstances where I'd secretly plan a dream trip with only one friend when it had always been the dream trip of three of us.

Deliberately excluding somebody from something you've dreamed about together for years is mean. School yard levels of bitchery.

Obviously there could be no question of you paying for it, but that should have been made VERY clear from the outset and the booking for her made entirely separately so you didn't end up forking out. But not even to invite her with conditions is horrible. Especially as the way you say she 'found out' makes it seem like you've been sneaking about and deliberately hiding it from her. You should have given her a chance to say she couldn't afford it rather than just excluding her.

What do you expect her to do when she can't afford to go out with you? Stiff her mortgage? The nursery? Not have the cash to get into work? Ruin her credit rating? Also offering to pay and then resenting it is not fair on her. If you offer something like that it should be no strings attached, not stored up as something to attack her for later.

Also the idea of 'punishing' a friend for cancelling on you by doing something like this is nasty.

Honestly, I thought people grew out of behaviour like this when they hit puberty?

As it was something the three of you had dreamed about, then YABU for not extending the invite, however I would have said "this is the cost, we are paying on X date so if you want to come you will need to come and pay then with us"

'offering to pay and then resenting it is not fair on her. If you offer something like that it should be no strings attached, not stored up as something to attack her for later'

Why do you think they were deliberately punishing her by not inviting her? They just didn't want her there, complaining about her lack of money in hope they would feel guilty and pay for her treats.

IMO it's U to let friends pay for you for years, never pay them back, then expect to be invited on a luxury holiday. She sounds like someone who would ruin a holiday by expecting you to pay for all her drinks, trips, meals out and extras.

I have a friend like this, who will squeeze every 'freebee' out of me she possibly can. She always acts very upset and ashamed when she realises she doesn't have enough to pay her share of a meal, taxi or drinks out, yet she is happy to let us pay. We don't see each other much now as it irritates me so much. She operates by making people feel guilty and sorry for her ie by refusing to order food in restaurant 'because I can't really afford it' (in a whisper) so someone else offers to get her share. Then she spends £100 on a dress an hour later! Some people have no morals when it comes to saving their own cash.

I had a friend like the one you describe Caspian and she is no longer my friend.

If I desperately craved her friendship I would have had to steel myself to have an awkward but necessary conversation: as it is I didn't crave it and just got fed up of being used as a cashpoint. I appreciate all that and how cross it makes you feel.

But - the answer is not silently excluding the person. You have two choices - to end the friendship, or have That Talk.