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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if 16 year olds need a letter of consent to travel overseas without parents, then this should be publicised?

167 replies

MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 22:49

DD1, who is a few months short of 17, recently went on a walking holiday in Turkey with a friend and her family. I checked the gov.uk website before she left, and also that of the airline, and neither mentioned the need for a letter of consent from parents to travel (the airline said it was needed for under 16s).

DD1 was held up by the airline, who called Immigration, who gave her the nth degree questioning, finally letting her board, when she showed them an email from me, giving details of her travel insurance. On return to UK, she got held up for even longer, being questioned about where she had been, what she had done, with the IO telling her that she should have a letter from her parents giving permission to travel, and that she "would exceptionally land her on this occasion, but next time to remember that she needed a letter." DD1 was quite upset by the whole experience.

Is this a new thing, and if so, where is it publicised, that you need a letter? What if I had let DD1 get married - would she have needed a parental letter to go on her honeymoon with her new husband? I understand that they are feeling a bit sore after the recent "jihadi brides" going to Syria, but DD1 in no way fits this profile, was wearing all her walking gear to travel, and was going nowhere near the border with Syria.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 19/04/2015 22:51

Are you saying it was solely a problem with the airline? If it's not in the terms and conditions you read you could complain to them?

greeneggsandjam · 19/04/2015 22:56

I can imagine it was a total pain and not something nice for her to experience but what the 'profile' that she doesn't fit? How were they to know she wasn't about to try and sneak off to the Syrian border or had gone without your permission? As ridiculous as it may seem to you, they don't know your daughter or her travel plans so I suppose they were just being careful. The family could have being kidnapping her for all they knew.

Are you annoyed that she has had to experience something only Muslims should expect?

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:02

No, Greeneggs, I am annoyed that if Immigration had said that she would need a letter of consent, I would have provided one. So enough of your snarky comments, although I think it is more reasonable to think that a Muslim girl would see more appeal of being a jihadi bride than one who isn't Muslim.

Ditto the airline. It wasn't a problem with the airline, it was a problem with Immigration, more, Laurie, as they called them over. The friend's mother pointed out that the website had specifically mentioned letters of consent only for the under 16s.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 19/04/2015 23:03

Yes, but it was the airline who called immigration over - I think they're the ones who've made a mistake by not putting it in their terms and conditions

LaurieFairyCake · 19/04/2015 23:05

And you've every reason to be annoyed with them. I'd be writing to them/tweeting etc

mousmous · 19/04/2015 23:05

turkey, underage female travelling on their own...
I'm surprised you are surprised after the stories about young people crossing from turkey into syria.

greeneggsandjam · 19/04/2015 23:05

They aren't snarky comments. They are perfectly valid. How would the airline know that your daughter isn't Muslim? Are you saying that Muslims cant look anything like your daughter?

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/04/2015 23:08

It's Turkey, she's a young woman. I would have stopped her.

The whole, "exceptionally land" thing is weird, though. I thought that with a passport, they had to let you in. They can lock you up but they have to let you in. That's what Canadian Immigration told me when I didn't have my PR card.

BertieBotts · 19/04/2015 23:11

Sorry I think YABU. Who are you expecting to "publicise" this? Isn't it your (or her) responsibility to check things like this before you travel?

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:13

She wasn't travelling on her own though. She was travelling with a family of five, who were very clearly going on a walking holiday.

You are right, Laurie - I will contact the airline. But it was the IO who held her up when she was returning to UK who upset DD most. She told her that DH was meeting her, and offered for him to come through, but the IO refused.

So should every single female traveller, be subject to the Spanish Inquisition, if they fancy a few days holiday in Turkey, then, and be suspected of rushing off to join ISIS as a jihadi bride? I do know something about profiling from a previous job, and there is no way that DD1 fits the profile that they should be looking for.

Greeneggs, you were implying that I was cross because DD1 "had to experience something that only Muslims should expect." That was never the case. And yes, I am quite aware that not all Muslims are of Asian/African/Middle Eastern appearance, having worked in the Balkans.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:16

Bertie - read my post. I did check. There was nothing on the HO website, and the airline only required a letter for under 16s travelling unaccompanied by their parents. If there is nothing on the HO website, and Mr Google threw up nothing, I think it is reasonable to expect that a letter is not needed (and any fool can forge a letter anyway, so I don't think that is any guarantee).

OP posts:
greeneggsandjam · 19/04/2015 23:21

At what point was it suggested that they were concerned she was off to join the Islamic State? I think you have come to that conclusion yourself.

Oh well, you know everything about profiling and you've worked in the Balkans so you must be right.

They must just be looking out for emmmm what exactly??? Girls wearing a headscarf? Slightly foreign looking? Surname like Khan? From East London? Clutching an Islamic State Guidebook?

Icimoi · 19/04/2015 23:25

OP, I assume your daughter has a British passport? If so, I think the Immigration Officer was being an officious bully, as he could have no conceivable basis for refusing her permission to enter the country. I'd love to know where he imagined she could be sent if permission was refused.

2rebecca · 19/04/2015 23:25

My kids have travelled abroad as teenagers without a parent, sometimes with a grandparent. Their dad or I always signed a letter with our contact details to say they were travelling with parental permission and that was before the ISIS stuff. Many airlines recommend this as did travel companies when they went on activity holidays abroad.
It was only asked for once.

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:26

Well why else would they worry about a single woman going to Turkey??

DD2 travelled on her own to the US last year and had no problems whatsoever, either with the airline or immigration. Most airlines allow children over 12 or 13 to travel on their own. DD1 has travelled to France on her own, again, no problem at all.

And yes, if I was an immigration officer, I think I might think more closely about a girl who looked overtly Muslim, but then again, she might only be going sightseeing or hiking, too.

And I was only pointing out (in answer to your question), that yes, I did understand that Muslims can be European too.

OP posts:
Mistigri · 19/04/2015 23:28

I don't think it's surprising that they stopped her, but the letter thing is ridiculous and I'd be irritated too. I would be tempted to contact the airline and HO suggesting they update their advice to travelers. People who are not breaking the law and who are following guidelines have the right to expect not to be harassed.

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:29

Icimoi - yes, she has a British passport, British Citizen, not subject to immigration control. We had to fill in a form for when DD2 flew to the US, but this was for the airline, not for immigration. And they didn't even bother to look at it when I dropped her off.

OP posts:
ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged · 19/04/2015 23:30

I'm surprised that you're surprised tbh. The 'Jihadi bride' story has been very widely published, as have the 'failings' of police and immigration. It's not really surprising that theyre now stopping unaccompanied teenage girls and asking a few questions is it? In fact, it's pretty reassuring?

I agree with you that a letter would be pointless, but asking for a letter, judging how the person reacts, discussing where they've been etc, now that sounds pretty sensible to me.

fluffymouse · 19/04/2015 23:31

Based on recent news stories surely you can understand the concern?

I never knew about this rule either, it must be new as none of the 'jihadi brides' had consent from their families.

Momagain1 · 19/04/2015 23:34

MrsS is not the one who raised the issue of jihadi bride fear and young muslim women being profiled. Her comments on that have been responses.

Though it is what came to mind when I was reading. And it seems the time spent researching whether you had to write a letter could have as easily been spent just writing a letter and putting it in her bag in case there was any sort of need any time during the trip.

Momagain1 · 19/04/2015 23:36

Sorry, I am wrong, somehow I zipped past her last paragraph when re-reading. No wonder it entered my mind.

greeneggsandjam · 19/04/2015 23:36

I have no idea why they were worried about her but I wouldn't say she is a single woman, she's a 16 year old travelling to a country with lots of problems of similar aged girls coming from the UK to try and get into Syria, so in that case I would say she fit the profile very well if that's the route you're insisting on. They are bound to be over the top. Would you like to be the officer who let the next girl into Syria? Probably not.

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:37

If it is a new rule, then they need to put something about it on their website, then people would know to comply... And to be frank, I was more annoyed with the immigration officer when DD1 was returning to UK, who kept her for quite some time, and also her comment that she "would exceptionally land her," which I think is quite scary (DD1 is quite a young 16, although she has travelled quite extensively on her own). DD1 has right of abode in UK - if they had refused to land her, what would they have done with her?

OP posts:
Tryharder · 19/04/2015 23:37

Immigration staff have a duty of care to minors which has been incorporated into recent immigration acts.

It isn't as simple as providing a letter as God knows any idiot can rustle up and sign a convincing enough letter on a computer.

The officer needs to be happy that the minor in question will be safe and has not been trafficked. They may check for any persons meeting the passenger but as with your DD's case, a few simple questions were sufficient to confirm her bona fide.

greeneggsandjam · 19/04/2015 23:39

By the way, I'm sure the two Austrian girls looked nothing like your typical Islamic State girls either when they started out on their journey.

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