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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that if 16 year olds need a letter of consent to travel overseas without parents, then this should be publicised?

167 replies

MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 22:49

DD1, who is a few months short of 17, recently went on a walking holiday in Turkey with a friend and her family. I checked the gov.uk website before she left, and also that of the airline, and neither mentioned the need for a letter of consent from parents to travel (the airline said it was needed for under 16s).

DD1 was held up by the airline, who called Immigration, who gave her the nth degree questioning, finally letting her board, when she showed them an email from me, giving details of her travel insurance. On return to UK, she got held up for even longer, being questioned about where she had been, what she had done, with the IO telling her that she should have a letter from her parents giving permission to travel, and that she "would exceptionally land her on this occasion, but next time to remember that she needed a letter." DD1 was quite upset by the whole experience.

Is this a new thing, and if so, where is it publicised, that you need a letter? What if I had let DD1 get married - would she have needed a parental letter to go on her honeymoon with her new husband? I understand that they are feeling a bit sore after the recent "jihadi brides" going to Syria, but DD1 in no way fits this profile, was wearing all her walking gear to travel, and was going nowhere near the border with Syria.

OP posts:
ratspeaker · 20/04/2015 08:10

penfold can you point me to where it is stated that under 18s must have a letter of consent. I've missed it.

3littlefrogs · 20/04/2015 08:11

My 17 year old had all this coming back into Kings Cross on Eurostar having been to visit friends in France.
Barely any questions on the way out of the country - you can travel on Eurostar unaccompanied from the age of about 15 I think.

We checked the website very carefully too.

On arrival back in London she was questioned very aggressively for over 20 minutes. She kept saying that her parents were meeting her (we were) but the immigration officer was really nasty to her and threatened to detain her for further questioning. Awful experience.

Tryingtowaititout · 20/04/2015 08:12

I'm not sure that would work Soup Dragon because the issue here is whether that person has the right to do something without parental permission, and the law governing the parent/child relationship would be the law of Scotland, regardless of where the child went. It's different from buying alcohol as the person's age is an objective fact no matter what country they are in.

I'm not saying that the UKBA wouldn't be right to stop and question a Scottish 16 year old departing from England without his/her parents, as the same grounds for suspicion are still there, but I don't think that they could impose an absolute rule of no letter/no travel.

And (separately) I am still very very doubtful that the imigration authorities have the right to detain any British citizen at the border when trying to re-enter the UK if his/her docs are in order unless they have sufficient ground to suspect him/her of being a terrorist and therefore having broken a non-immigration law. Surely the most they could do would be to notify the police/security services, who might then choose to put the person under surveillance?

ratspeaker · 20/04/2015 08:15

Its a UK law that 16 year olds in Scotland have full Legal Capacity.

So if they say the rules change if leaving from an English port or airport surely it should be stated clearly on the uk.gov website.
In fact it should be stated clearly that ALL under age of 18 need consent letter with them at all times to travel abroad.

mousmous · 20/04/2015 08:22

op's dd might have been questioned by immigration if she were an adult as well. the consent form is just an additional thing that was
checked.

Tryingtowaititout · 20/04/2015 08:22

3littlefrogs what sort of questions were the Immigration Officers asking your daughter? I'm struggling to think what law a 17 year-old might have been breaking even if your DH hadn't been there to meet her at the other end. She could legally have been travelling home driving all by herself in her own car for goodness sake!

Tryingtowaititout · 20/04/2015 08:24

mousmous of course anyone can be questioned but the OP's DD was told expressly that they "would exceptionally land her on this occasion, but next time to remember that she needed a letter."

So it seems they were suggesting no letter=no entry.

OvertiredandConfused · 20/04/2015 08:25

Given the current climate, everyone thinks Isis but please remember the myriad other reasons, including child abduction. I know it seems strange, especially on re-entry, but this is a key chance for officials to check and intervene.

It's exceptionally annoying, and probably rather frightening even for a 16 yo, but better safe than sorry.

Back in 2010 US officials stopped my 5 yo DS to check we were really his parents and to ask where we were going. He was quite put out and explained he was going with mummy to meet Mickey Mouse!

SoupDragon · 20/04/2015 08:31

Its a UK law that 16 year olds in Scotland have full Legal Capacity.

You say 16 year olds in Scotland though. Is it 16 year olds in Scotland or Scottish 16year olds?

Also, what counts as a Scottish teenager? Born in Scotland, just being in Scotland or having Sottish parents

It's a minefield and nothing anywhere seems to state that anyone needs a letter of parental consent to travel.

meditrina · 20/04/2015 08:33

"She has the right of abode in UK - there was nothing they could have done to stop her being landed."

True, but if they thought her activities whilst in a location of current concern did not stack up, they would arrange for her to be intercepted by anti-terror police.

They may well be stopping and questioning all sorts of travellers to enquire about their plans and activities, not just those of a particular age. And in some depth when on the known route to a destination of concern. 'Clean skin' recruits are prized by nefarious organisations.

The bit about the letter may well not have been the reason, just the pretext.

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 20/04/2015 08:33

And if anyone had been to ISIS, they would hardly be likely to admit this to the IO on arrival in UK!

The family she was travelling with were with her throughout; she was not abandoned by them as they sailed through immigration! She (and they) repeatedly offered to call DH, or to go and get him, but the IO refused.

I would have no problems with providing her with a letter, but someone needs to make it clear that this is required. I'm clearly not the only one who has had problems.

OP posts:
meditrina · 20/04/2015 08:35

No, of course they wouldn't, it's simply the first opportunity for the authorities to eyeball and assess.

BeaufortBelle · 20/04/2015 08:36

I hope it did't spoil your daughter's holiday and that she had a nice time Mrs S.

I think a polite letter about the manner in which it was done and the lack of clarity on the official websites is what's needed.

I suspect the issue is with the manner of it and all too often the staff at the immigration desks, especially at Gatwick, are generally a bit sullen and "computer says" even when people have been queueing for far too long, often late at night in an environment that provides no seating and no assistance. It's all part of the same we are here to do you a favour mentality and not good PR as far as welcome to the UK is concerned. The Airport blames Immigration; Immigration blame the Airport and I suspect that is what will happen for you vis a vis the Airline and Immigration.

NerrSnerr · 20/04/2015 08:39

Of course they wouldn't say, but the immigration service probably have more skills/ intelligence then just asking someone and taking their word for it. Ha ha.

Mrsjayy · 20/04/2015 08:40

What did the friends parents say/do you didnt say ?

Mrsjayy · 20/04/2015 08:43

Oh you just did say sorry i think what happened to your dd is terrible but i guess if you are traveling through an airport then immigration are within their rights to question anybody.

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 20/04/2015 08:45

The friend's parents waited with her, offered to show the IO things like the trail they had hiked along (maps), receipts for hotels along the way, etc etc, to go and fetch DH, call him etc etc. They had the copy of DD's travel insurance, and my email forwarding it.

OP posts:
marmaladegranny · 20/04/2015 08:51

My 3 DC (now adult) travelled abroad on several occasions without either parent when under 16. We always provided them with a letter (unless on official school trip) that they were travelling with our permission - it was one of the things that many friends and work colleagues told us was necessary and it was a question of better safe than sorry! They were never challenged - but that means nothing!!

2rebecca · 20/04/2015 08:53

I live in Scotland but my kids have had letters when travelling outwith Scotland because so many countries have 18 as their cut off age. It takes 5 minutes to write a letter and it saves hassle. I started writing letters because the first time my kids went away with relatives the tour company asked for a letter and I've just given them one in case after that, not that they're away without me often and son now 18 anyway

3littlefrogs · 20/04/2015 09:14

Tryingitout
The IO wanted to know where she had been, who her friends were, what the purpose of the visit was (to celebrate a birthday, go to a show, sight-see), where she lived in the UK, what her parents did for a living, what school she went to - lots more but she isn't here so I can't ask her.
She repeatedly said that her parents were just the other side of the barrier and offered to phone us, but they weren't interested in letting her do that.

The whole thing seemed to be about intimidating and scaring her. Luckily she is quite a tough cookie. Many kids would probably have been reduced to tears.

The implicit threat was that she was not going to be allowed through, despite her British passport, valid return ticket etc.

We - on the other side of the barrier, were beginning to wonder what had happened to her.

Gubbins · 20/04/2015 09:17

You are obviously not being unreasonable, OP.

If a letter of consent is needed for a sixteen year old, then that should be made clear. I'd consider contacting the FO and telling them they may want to update their travel advice pages.

grannytomine · 20/04/2015 10:31

Re profiling, don't you think a prospective Jihadi bride might have thought about that? Bit like a burglar not going out in a stripey jumper with a mask and a swag bag over his shoulder.

Girls from non Muslim families have gone to ISIS and I imagine many of them were wearing standard teenage clothing till they got there.

If your daughter had been radicalised on line and was heading off to join ISIS would you have been glad she was stopped?

SoupDragon · 20/04/2015 10:36

If your daughter had been radicalised on line and was heading off to join ISIS would you have been glad she was stopped?

She was stopped coming home. Rather too late to check if she was off to join ISIS don't you think? They refused to contact the parent who was waiting in the arrival area. They refused to accept the email the DD had shown on the way out which was sufficient to allow her to leave the country. There appears to be no rule stating that a letter of permission is necessary (which is easily faked and thus useless).

SoupDragon · 20/04/2015 10:37

Surely an actual parent in the same airport is less easy to fake than a letter.

3littlefrogs · 20/04/2015 10:37

grannytomine
My issue is that there are absolutely no questions asked on the way out of the UK - it is all about coming back in - when you have only been as far as Paris and have a return ticket and a British passport.

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